5 ms·

This is where centralization would come into play -- all sessions are recorded and publicly available. The situation you pose could occur, but could also be qui

by tabeth 9y ago

This is where centralization would come into play -- all sessions are recorded and publicly available. The situation you pose could occur, but could also be quickly identified, resulting in the banning of both Alice and Bob. Such a deterrent would hopefully prevent people from attempting to game the system. The point of recording and publishing the sessions, by the way, is to prevent repeated tutoring sessions surrounding the same question or content, ideally.

pavel_lishin 9y ago
This sounds more like lectures and less like tutoring sessions. And I think a lot of people might be uncomfortable with having their tutoring sessions publicly viewable - what if I need help preparing for interviews, and my tutoring sessions make me look like I'm not a capable software developer? It would be kind of embarrassing if a potential employer could look up videos of me asking someone to explain big-O complexity of various sort algorithms, or of a potential math teacher who needs help remembering basic algebra.
- tabeth 9y ago
  You make good points, though I have to add that though it is "public", you couldn't actually identify the people involved in a particular tutoring session from just the video. This would be something the central authority would take care of. So tutoring is generally done via text and visuals, with no audio or video of either participant in the session. As for your situation, in that case the hypothetical system I proposed wouldn't make sense. In the case you're describing now, it would make more sense for your to simply give your Help to the person who assisted you in exchange for their assistance. This is in contrast to the "system" giving you Help for simply helping someone else (i.e. the person receiving help doesn't have to give you their Help).
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    > you couldn't actually identify the people involved in a particular tutoring session from just the video I guess it depends on what you're recording, but even if you don't save the audio, or the camera recordings, information can still leak. Am I sharing my screen with my tutor? Great; my browser bookmark bar is visible, and possibly my URL history if I start typing something in. Oh, look - my Gmail tab shows my entire full name. My anonymity is blown before the second frame of the video loads. > In the case you're describing now, it would make more sense for your to simply give your Help to the person who assisted you in exchange for their assistance. I guess I don't understand the system. I thought that if I tutor Thomas in some basic mathematics, I earn 20 Tutorbucks. I can then spend those 20 Tutorbucks by paying Jenny to help me understand how Spring's authentication system works. It doesn't really make sense to do tutor exchanges - what am I going to ask Thomas for help with? In any case, it seems like the answer to the submission's question in your case is a resounding no. There's nothing a blockchain brings to the table.
    - tabeth 9y ago
      I see the confusion. 1. Anonymity isn't a goal, persay. Everything you're talking about, in terms of "public incompetence" is true immediately once you post anything online. It's only a matter of time. Personally I'd argue that people who are actively seeking tutoring would be more sought after, but that's another story. Not to mention most of the things you're mentioning could be accounted for during implementation. 2. In your example, if you tutor Thomas in basic math, you would receive 20 Tutorbucks in exchange for said knowledge to be available to everyone, hence the exchange being public (furthermore, a third party would have to spend their Tutorbucks to actually view said session, perhaps). If, you wanted Jenny then to help you with Spring's authentication you could then give her the 20 Tutorbucks as opposed to the system giving it to you, and then it could be private, though that's not how I originally conceived it. As for the submission question -- how do you guarantee to all participants that data isn't changed without blockchain?
      - pavel_lishin 9y ago
        > Everything you're talking about, in terms of "public incompetence" is true immediately once you post anything online. Not true. A potential employer doesn't know what I'm googling for, and they have no way to tie "throwaway37745XXQQXX" on StackOverflow back to me. > As for the submission question -- how do you guarantee to all participants that data isn't changed without blockchain? There are other ways to ensure that the data is authentic. Thomas and I could both sign the resulting video or other data with private keys. I'm not entirely sure how else proof-of-help would work, anyway - how does me tutoring Thomas or Jenny tutoring me append to the blockchain? It's all based on what we claim occurred. I think your idea is good - publicly available tutoring, with social elements - minus the blockchain.
joosters 9y ago
Once you add any centralization, the rest of the blockchain becomes pointless. If you rely on one database/oracle/trusted service, you might as well let them do all the rest of the work and scrap all the chain building, as it would be more efficient.
- tabeth 9y ago
  How do you guarantee that the data in question is not changed without blockchain?
  - sunaurus 9y ago
    A centralized blockchain does not guarantee that at all. In fact, it's probably impossible to guarantee this for any kind of centralized service. In order to be able to trust centralized ledgers, clients need to keep a local copy (or a local history of hashes) so that they can detect manipulation (regardless of whether you're using a blockchain or something else to store your data).
  - joosters 9y ago
    You can't, but that is irrelevant if the centralized service is required. You can point at the blockchain data all you like, but if the centralized service that you rely on chooses to ignore the blockchain data, you're out of luck. Hence, you either need no centralized points, or just ditch the blockchain and put all your faith in the central resource. If it is trustworthy, great, everything has become much more efficient. If it isn't, you're screwed, regardless of whether or not there's a blockchain.

by tabeth 9y ago

pavel_lishin 9y ago

This sounds more like lectures and less like tutoring sessions. And I think a lot of people might be uncomfortable with having their tutoring sessions publicly viewable - what if I need help preparing for interviews, and my tutoring sessions make me look like I'm not a capable software developer? It would be kind of embarrassing if a potential employer could look up videos of me asking someone to explain big-O complexity of various sort algorithms, or of a potential math teacher who needs help remembering basic algebra.

tabeth 9y ago
You make good points, though I have to add that though it is "public", you couldn't actually identify the people involved in a particular tutoring session from just the video. This would be something the central authority would take care of. So tutoring is generally done via text and visuals, with no audio or video of either participant in the session. As for your situation, in that case the hypothetical system I proposed wouldn't make sense. In the case you're describing now, it would make more sense for your to simply give your Help to the person who assisted you in exchange for their assistance. This is in contrast to the "system" giving you Help for simply helping someone else (i.e. the person receiving help doesn't have to give you their Help).
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  > you couldn't actually identify the people involved in a particular tutoring session from just the video I guess it depends on what you're recording, but even if you don't save the audio, or the camera recordings, information can still leak. Am I sharing my screen with my tutor? Great; my browser bookmark bar is visible, and possibly my URL history if I start typing something in. Oh, look - my Gmail tab shows my entire full name. My anonymity is blown before the second frame of the video loads. > In the case you're describing now, it would make more sense for your to simply give your Help to the person who assisted you in exchange for their assistance. I guess I don't understand the system. I thought that if I tutor Thomas in some basic mathematics, I earn 20 Tutorbucks. I can then spend those 20 Tutorbucks by paying Jenny to help me understand how Spring's authentication system works. It doesn't really make sense to do tutor exchanges - what am I going to ask Thomas for help with? In any case, it seems like the answer to the submission's question in your case is a resounding no. There's nothing a blockchain brings to the table.
  - tabeth 9y ago
    I see the confusion. 1. Anonymity isn't a goal, persay. Everything you're talking about, in terms of "public incompetence" is true immediately once you post anything online. It's only a matter of time. Personally I'd argue that people who are actively seeking tutoring would be more sought after, but that's another story. Not to mention most of the things you're mentioning could be accounted for during implementation. 2. In your example, if you tutor Thomas in basic math, you would receive 20 Tutorbucks in exchange for said knowledge to be available to everyone, hence the exchange being public (furthermore, a third party would have to spend their Tutorbucks to actually view said session, perhaps). If, you wanted Jenny then to help you with Spring's authentication you could then give her the 20 Tutorbucks as opposed to the system giving it to you, and then it could be private, though that's not how I originally conceived it. As for the submission question -- how do you guarantee to all participants that data isn't changed without blockchain?
    - pavel_lishin 9y ago
      > Everything you're talking about, in terms of "public incompetence" is true immediately once you post anything online. Not true. A potential employer doesn't know what I'm googling for, and they have no way to tie "throwaway37745XXQQXX" on StackOverflow back to me. > As for the submission question -- how do you guarantee to all participants that data isn't changed without blockchain? There are other ways to ensure that the data is authentic. Thomas and I could both sign the resulting video or other data with private keys. I'm not entirely sure how else proof-of-help would work, anyway - how does me tutoring Thomas or Jenny tutoring me append to the blockchain? It's all based on what we claim occurred. I think your idea is good - publicly available tutoring, with social elements - minus the blockchain.

joosters 9y ago

Once you add any centralization, the rest of the blockchain becomes pointless. If you rely on one database/oracle/trusted service, you might as well let them do all the rest of the work and scrap all the chain building, as it would be more efficient.

tabeth 9y ago
How do you guarantee that the data in question is not changed without blockchain?
- sunaurus 9y ago
  A centralized blockchain does not guarantee that at all. In fact, it's probably impossible to guarantee this for any kind of centralized service. In order to be able to trust centralized ledgers, clients need to keep a local copy (or a local history of hashes) so that they can detect manipulation (regardless of whether you're using a blockchain or something else to store your data).
- joosters 9y ago
  You can't, but that is irrelevant if the centralized service is required. You can point at the blockchain data all you like, but if the centralized service that you rely on chooses to ignore the blockchain data, you're out of luck. Hence, you either need no centralized points, or just ditch the blockchain and put all your faith in the central resource. If it is trustworthy, great, everything has become much more efficient. If it isn't, you're screwed, regardless of whether or not there's a blockchain.