4 ms·

General question: Wouldn't it make more sense to have a whitelist instead of (or at least in addition to) a blacklist? Moreover, I'd love to see this informati

by vog 9y ago

General question: Wouldn't it make more sense to have a whitelist instead of (or at least in addition to) a blacklist? Moreover, I'd love to see this information maintained somewhere in Wikipedia/Wikidata.

nathan_long 9y ago
That depends on whether there are more vegan or non-vegan foods. It also depends on which kind of failure is better: accidentally eating something non-vegan, or unnecessarily restricting an already-restricted diet. But in either case you're not going to cover every possibility. Eg, a complete whitelist would include tomatillos, cactus fruit, dandelion greens... and also stuff like "monocalcium phosphate". Whereas a complete blacklist would include bear jerky, locusts, pickled pig's feet, monkey brains, haggis... Also, checking strings is failure prone. "chicken" doesn't match "chicken breast", "chicken thighs", "mechanically separated chicken", etc. That last one is mistakenly considered vegan in the README example. If you try to match "chicken" as a substring, you might exclude "mock chicken" (if that's a real ingredient). To be thorough, this is going to have to be a VERY big list, white or black.
- camtarn 9y ago
  I think haggis might be covered by the existing blacklist, as it's usually made with lamb offal, and would usually appear as a sub-list on an ingredients list. For example, here's a haggis pizza: Pizza Topping (59%): Haggis (21%) [Lamb Lungs (33%), Seasoning (Oatmeal, Dried Onions, Barley Flakes, Salt, Spices (Pepper, Pimento), Water, Beef Fat (13%): Beef Liver (10%, Beef Heart (5%)], Mozzarella Cheese (Milk) (21%), Tomato Sauce (17%) [Concentrated Crushed Tomatoes, Additive: Citric Acid, Water, Rapeseed Oil, Salt, Oregano, Garlic], Pizza Base: (41%): Wheat Flour. Additives: Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamine, Water, Yeast, Salt, Rapeseed Oil, Maize Flour (and yes, haggis pizza is a thing...! I wouldn't recommend it though, to be honest, even if you do love haggis.)
  - camtarn 9y ago
    Actually, having checked the blacklist, lamb isn't on it...! That seems like a pretty big omission.
  - DonHopkins 9y ago
    Is Gummy Haggis vegan? https://laughingsquid.com/gummy-haggis-gummy-tapeworm-from-archie-mcphee/ https://laughingsquid.com/gummy-haggis-gummy-tapeworm-from-a...
Noos 9y ago
It would have the unintended effect of showing people just how restrictive and bland a vegan lifestyle is, turning them off from it.
- marricks 9y ago
  It’s funny because all spices are plants. So if you, for some reason, wanted to cut out all plant matter you’d be the one with a bland tasteless world.
- acobster 9y ago
  As a vegan myself, I find it laughable that someone could somehow elude the notion that the vegan "lifestyle" is "restrictive and bland" until they fortuitously discover this GitHub repo, or a tool that uses it. People are aware. They seldom miss a chance to let me know.
- KozmoNau7 9y ago
  Restrictive? It has to be, by definition. Bland? Only if you define your meals primarily by the meat they contain, which is still very ingrained in the western approach to food. So a lot of people think of vegetarian food as "leaving something out" or "taking something away", and imagine a steak dinner where you've simply removed the steak. That is obviously a bad approach. Focus on what you can make instead. Disclaimer: I like cooking and eating all kinds of tasty food, and I don't mind at all if it's vegetarian or vegan.

by vog 9y ago

nathan_long 9y ago

That depends on whether there are more vegan or non-vegan foods. It also depends on which kind of failure is better: accidentally eating something non-vegan, or unnecessarily restricting an already-restricted diet. But in either case you're not going to cover every possibility. Eg, a complete whitelist would include tomatillos, cactus fruit, dandelion greens... and also stuff like "monocalcium phosphate". Whereas a complete blacklist would include bear jerky, locusts, pickled pig's feet, monkey brains, haggis... Also, checking strings is failure prone. "chicken" doesn't match "chicken breast", "chicken thighs", "mechanically separated chicken", etc. That last one is mistakenly considered vegan in the README example. If you try to match "chicken" as a substring, you might exclude "mock chicken" (if that's a real ingredient). To be thorough, this is going to have to be a VERY big list, white or black.

camtarn 9y ago
I think haggis might be covered by the existing blacklist, as it's usually made with lamb offal, and would usually appear as a sub-list on an ingredients list. For example, here's a haggis pizza: Pizza Topping (59%): Haggis (21%) [Lamb Lungs (33%), Seasoning (Oatmeal, Dried Onions, Barley Flakes, Salt, Spices (Pepper, Pimento), Water, Beef Fat (13%): Beef Liver (10%, Beef Heart (5%)], Mozzarella Cheese (Milk) (21%), Tomato Sauce (17%) [Concentrated Crushed Tomatoes, Additive: Citric Acid, Water, Rapeseed Oil, Salt, Oregano, Garlic], Pizza Base: (41%): Wheat Flour. Additives: Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamine, Water, Yeast, Salt, Rapeseed Oil, Maize Flour (and yes, haggis pizza is a thing...! I wouldn't recommend it though, to be honest, even if you do love haggis.)
- camtarn 9y ago
  Actually, having checked the blacklist, lamb isn't on it...! That seems like a pretty big omission.
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  Is Gummy Haggis vegan? https://laughingsquid.com/gummy-haggis-gummy-tapeworm-from-archie-mcphee/ https://laughingsquid.com/gummy-haggis-gummy-tapeworm-from-a...

Noos 9y ago

It would have the unintended effect of showing people just how restrictive and bland a vegan lifestyle is, turning them off from it.

marricks 9y ago
It’s funny because all spices are plants. So if you, for some reason, wanted to cut out all plant matter you’d be the one with a bland tasteless world.
acobster 9y ago
As a vegan myself, I find it laughable that someone could somehow elude the notion that the vegan "lifestyle" is "restrictive and bland" until they fortuitously discover this GitHub repo, or a tool that uses it. People are aware. They seldom miss a chance to let me know.
KozmoNau7 9y ago
Restrictive? It has to be, by definition. Bland? Only if you define your meals primarily by the meat they contain, which is still very ingrained in the western approach to food. So a lot of people think of vegetarian food as "leaving something out" or "taking something away", and imagine a steak dinner where you've simply removed the steak. That is obviously a bad approach. Focus on what you can make instead. Disclaimer: I like cooking and eating all kinds of tasty food, and I don't mind at all if it's vegetarian or vegan.