12 ms·
People who are less willing to apologize also tend to be less self-compassionate
- jckwtt 9y agoApologizing is a selfish act, so this make sense on the title alone.
- drb91 9y agoApologizing is only selfish until you want one yourself. Then they can be extremely meaningful. The culture of over-apologizing should not be confused with the ability to admit serious mistakes and acknowledge their impact--this is simply accepting responsibility in a social context. This doesn't add much to the conversation unless you care to explain how a social interaction can be reduced to a character flaw in all cases.
- 111_1_111 9y agoI've never heard the term "self-compassionate" before in my life. I'd be curious to know how they quantified "self-compassion." The abstract of course says nothing about this key detail.
- trengrj 9y agoIn other news people who are less willing to smile also tend to be less friendly.
- gumby 9y agoThat's not really parallel to what the article says.
- Broken_Hippo 9y ago... Or lives in a different part of the world than you.
- pwython 9y agoI'm sorry, but, I wish studies like these would share at least the sample size without having to pay for it, considering every hack publication will report on it as "fact." Not that I disagree with the study, I'm just curious how they did the test.
- umanwizard 9y agoThe sample size isn't by itself enough to conclude much.
- pwython 9y agoNot by itself, but in the scheme of things, it makes a huge difference. Studying or polling 100,000 people across the world is way different than doing the same with 100 people at her University.
- ssambros 9y agoI agree that large enough sample size is not a sufficient condition to reach a correct conclusion, however I will argue that it's a required one.
- glitcher 9y agoYour opinion is perfectly justified and certainly not harming anyone, no need to apologize for it!
- throwaway0255 9y agoHonestly I don’t understand the purpose of an apology. They also seem inherently dishonest (you’re sorry, and you did it? that makes no sense). I’ve also never felt better after being apologized to, and I’ve never had an apology improve my situation or anybody else’s, at any point in my life, ever. I have however had it be construed as an admission of guilt that exacerbates things. So at least apologies have that going for them! Apologies are childish. I think they’re something adults force on children because they want to believe their children are remorseful and still “good.” Anyone have a good pro-apology argument? I can’t think of one.
- s_m_t 9y agoYou've never made a mistake before?
- usaphp 9y agoExample: you play soccer, you tried to tackle for a ball and misjudged your tackle and kicked the player instead of the ball, why would not your apology be honest? You honestly did not want to hurt the player, I would feel better if I hear an apology
- throwaway0255 9y agoYeah, that makes sense. Apologizing for genuine mistakes that have consequences for others, that makes sense.
- feiio11 9y agoTypically nobody apologizes for mistakes unless there are consequences for someone else.
- maxxxxx 9y agoI think part of an apology has to be the understanding that the problematic behavior will change.
- ggg9990 9y ago
- zbentley 9y agoNote that the inverse is not true.
- macromaniac 9y agoApologies are not always needed. When you really mess up its usually pretty obvious and saying youre sorry doesnt do all that much. "Sorry I introduced a bug that causes the system to crash once a week" doesn't really help anyone, of course you're going to be sorry. I heard this from someone and it stuck with me: "Don't apologize, fix it." Edit: I made a mistake while writing this, I am trying to say be objective about your mistakes but many people took that to mean don't admit your mistakes. I should have been more specific with my terminology.
- gumby 9y agoAcknowledging that you know you caused the problem has important social function: it provides sympathy to others who may be annoyed at you ("they are annoyed at themselves too, so I shouldn't be so hard on them") and signals that you are aware of your actions so are less likely to screw up in future. But yes, you should clean up your messes.
- bthornbury 9y agoAcknowledgement of your shortcomings is not the same as an apology. In my experience apologies are not making things better, but saying yeah that’s my fault and moving forward does.
- brazzledazzle 9y agoThey’re the same as far as I’m concerned. Whether you say “I’m sorry” or “oops. my bad” doesn’t matter as long as you acknowledge that you did something that may have fucked up someone’s morning/day/weekend.
- macromaniac 9y agoOkay then it's just semantics. I admit mistakes but I try to be objective about it. If that's considered an apology then I do apologize.
- gumby 9y ago
- maxxxxx 9y agoHonest apologies are good but I see a lot of people that apologize all the time but don't change their behavior. They probably think it's OK as long as they apologize.
- DoreenMichele 9y agoThis is standard behavior for abusive people. It is so standard that it makes you wonder if it is Chapter One of some guidebook on How to be an Abusive Asshole. It is another reason I am not fond of apologies. If all you do is apologize and you don't change and don't try to make things right, you can get the fuck out of my life.
- gt_ 9y agoWhile that is annoying, I think we should clarify that it is not abuse. I hesitate to even consider it manipulation. Maybe I am missing something. Could you give an example? It sounds dishonorable at most, but not offensive. To be honest, my first thought is that an insinuation of this being abuse is more qualified manipulation than the behavior you’re critiquing. You can always just let the person out of your life. It sounds likely they are merely not meeting your standards because humans are irrational, weird, biological and well, human.
- DoreenMichele 9y agoYou seem to be misreading my point. People who are abusive very often apologize for it. For example, men who beat their wives routinely apologize afterwards and even swear they will stop. But they don't. They escalate. The beatings get worse. Habitual empty apologies don't constitute abuse per se. There are people with, for example, low self esteem who just apologize for everything all the time. This is annoying, but not abusive. But abusive people who actually do terrible things also apologize a lot. However, they don't change and they don't make amends. These are not people I want in my life.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- User23 9y agoThis article is clickbait garbage.
- davesque 9y agoKinda related: it's occurred to that I've only ever witnessed anyone in my life genuinely apologize for something a handful of times. Weird to think about. People really seem to struggle with this.
- debt 9y agoI agree with the anecdote. As a corollary anecdote, the older I get the more I see people taking advantage of other people for their own personal gain.
- david-gpu 9y agoIt seems to vary a lot from one culture to another. In Japan making excuses or not apologizing is seen as childish.
- davesque 9y agoYeah, I've wondered about how much this varies. I mostly have my own experience from living in the US. I've spent some time in Japan and I can imagine that what you say is true. Honestly, it's a really nice feeling to have the opportunity to apologize for something you know you did wrong. It can really strengthen a relationship with someone.
- 77pt77 9y agoApologies in Japan are also usually empty and meaningless. It's more of a custom than anything else.
- davesque 9y agoActually I've wondered about this. I've noticed that, in Japan, when something bad happens, it often seems that someone is expected to appear in public and apologize often while shedding a tear or two. I've seen that happen a few different times and in the same way each time. So yeah, I've thought it might just be a custom.
- 9y ago
- Red_Tarsius 9y agoOff topic question. A few years ago I started a heated, short-lived debate on an online forum. Soon after, however, I realized my arguments were flawed. Is it creepy to send an apology to a few users after such a long time? I don't know them in real life, but I regret my rushed judgment to this day. I would like my online behaviour to be consistent with my real-life behaviour regardless of circumstances.
- freedom7775 9y agoCreepy? No. Just don't grave dig if you decide to apologize.
- Knufen 9y agoI honestly think most people don't give a [spoiler]shit[/spoiler]. I would at least find it very weird and probably think your autistic or something. Note: I don't mean the autism thing in a bad way.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- tedsanders 9y agoI wouldn't find it creepy at all, though obviously depends on the exact context. I admire people who change their minds and who follow up to tie off loose threads. Others might feel differently, but I'd encourage you to reach out if you're considering it. Generally I think reaching out to others is worthwhile. And just doing it usually takes less time than pondering whether you should do it or not.
- bringtheaction 9y agoCan't you say so in the thread then? That way people coming to the discussion in the future will see your admission of being wrong.
- annywhey 9y agoOn the one hand, it's not worth it if you have become a traumatising figure(e.g. bad breakup) - an apology can't fix that. On the other, a heated online argument, you're anonymous and only remembered as one more incident of low level aggression. So sending any kind word is probably good overall.
- stevenjohns 9y agoI keep getting redirected to https://www.vice.com/en_au https://www.vice.com/en_au whenever I click on this link. Looking on the en/AU variation of the site, I can't seem to find the article. Does Vice seem to think Australians shouldn't have access to this article? Or is geofencing dumb, outdated and broken? I'm leaning towards the latter.
- ullarah 9y agoVery annoying. I found using google cache I could read the article. Anybody out there that could provide a PDF perhaps?
- dredmorbius 9y agoTry the Internet Archive or Archive.is as alternatives. Maybe leave feedback for Vice.
- tomhoward 9y agoThe AU version is here: https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/wj48nz/people-who-never-apologize-probably-arent-nice-to-themselves-either https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/wj48nz/people-who-never-a...
- racer-v 9y agoIt's also crucial to consider the motivations of the person you're apologizing to. If that person is interested in moving forward and (re)building the relationship, do it. But if the "offended" party is still resentful, they may use your apology as an "admission of guilt" and try to twist your words against you. Moral: don't apologize to a truly toxic person - instead remove them from your life immediately.
- gt_ 9y agoWhat do you mean by “toxic”?
- racer-v 9y agoBy "toxic" I mean someone who essentially sees social situations as a way to play out their inner sadistic tendencies - for example by passive-aggressively seeking conflicts so they can play the victim, or constantly looking for "enemies" and trying to ruin their reputations. A person who has unresolved inner conflict or trauma which they try to rectify (or distract themselves from) by projecting issues onto others.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- dredmorbius 9y agoThis is rather lite-pop psych, but covers the basics: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-flux/201608/8-things-the-most-toxic-people-in-your-life-have-in-common https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-flux/201608/8-things... Manipulative, judgemental, fail to be accountable / responsible, don't apologise, are inconsistent, require you to prove yourself, require you to defend yourself, are not caring / supportive / interested in what's important to you. Not mentioned: there's often trauma, abuse, fear, or pain underlying the behaviour. Not that this makes it any easier to deal with.
- groby_b 9y agoApologies are not about who the other person is. Apologize for where you went wrong. They're also not a "get out of jail free" card. If you did something rather hurtful, a person might still resent you for what you did. That doesn't mean they're "toxic" or "twisting your words" - it means they have been deeply hurt by you, in a way that only time can truly heal.
- jvreagan 9y agoNSFW due to language... but obligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwfuUyTMpVY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwfuUyTMpVY
- gt_ 9y agoI am an advocate of apologies and have to actively practice not apologizing too much. I really believe in the value that can come of them, but that value is also dependent on how they are responded to. There is no hard rule, of course. It’s delicate. But, I see apologies punished and taken advantage of most of the time they are given, especially in “professional” environments. When someone apologizes, the response should probably be difficult. If it’s easy, it may be worth thinking about it a little longer. Thankfully, I think I have learned what best works for me: don’t befriend or work with others who do not share my values. It’s almost impossible but it gets much easier with time.
- jimjimjim 9y agothis seems to vary a lot between countries. Also, it's interesting looking at web sites that have comment sections with voting. Often admitting a mistake will attract more negative votes than stupidly insisting that a bad comment is ok. (which i think is a terrible commentary on the tech industry or the blood thirstiness of web site comments).
- willart4food 9y agoYou mean like narcissists?
- mmirate 9y agoPutting aside for discussion's sake the question of the very existence of any merits at all of compassion... why particularly should I ever be self-compassionate? A person cannot control other people's actions the way they can control their own; and that's one of the few reasons I can't berate other people for their mistakes to the extent that I can berate myself for my own. Indeed, for that same reason, when I make mistakes, my response to myself is little more than the vilest of fury: the ability to act correctly (including the ability to learn it) was within my own nervous system, yet I clearly neglected to use it. (For example: previously this comment contained several typographical errors. Rereading the comment repeatedly, revealed each typo ... but there's no excuse for any of them to have even escaped the keyboard.)
- racer-v 9y agoYou'll probably live a longer, happier life, and do more good for others in the world, if you have compassion for yourself.
- Emphere 9y agoI don't agree with this. You don't have as much control over yourself as you think you do. Your genes and your environment play a huge role on how you act and behave. Of course I am not saying that you shouldn't take responsibility for your actions--you should. You should see where you went wrong and try your best so that it doesn't happen again. If you observe your emotions closely, you might find that berating yourself is often a way to 'feel good' (oh look how self aware I am, how virtuous I am for recognizing my mistakes) without actually accomplishing anything. And research backs this up. People who berate themselves over mistakes are less likely to implement behavioural changes. It is inevitable that you'll make mistakes. You'll make mistakes everyday. So it is best to accept this and get over yourself--to focus on improving yourself. I like to think of it as treating yourself as you would your best friend. If your best friend makes a mistake you wouldn't berate him, nor would you encourage him to keep making the same mistakes. You would instead, with compassion and respect try to help him out. Disclaimer: this post might sound kind of righteous and condescending. But that's not my intention. This is based on my experience with my own self. YMMV
- dredmorbius 9y agoInteresting to note that the original meaning of "apology" was far closer to "excuse" or "defence" than the present "acknowledgement" or "atonement". https://www.etymonline.com/word/apology https://www.etymonline.com/word/apology http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=apology http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=apo...
- TipVFL 9y agoTo all the people saying apologies are worthless, you probably feel that way because you get too many worthless apologies. Personally, I don't count it as an apology unless they acknowledge how they've hurt you, expressed remorse, and made a commitment to change. I've known many people who can only manage the first two (at best), and it drives me insane.