5 ms·

Java 9 has six weeks to live

63 points by md365 9y ago

therealmarv 9y ago
Thanks. Stayed on Java 8 because had some smaller problems with Java 9. Now I'm happy I stayed with Java 8 (LTS).
- md365 9y ago
  Ironically, some claims that Java 9 feels like home.
marcodave 9y ago
on one hand, I'm pretty ok with this, it helps more understanding that "hey, you're several security patches behind!" rather than just hiding the information in a build number. what's not really clear at least from the article, how will new APIs be rolled out with this faster release cycle?
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  New APIs will be part of the every 6 months feature releases. Which means if you aren't on the LTS, you need to stay up with feature releases to get security updates after 6 months.
  - needusername 9y ago
    Also old APIs can be removed part of the every 6 months feature releases. In theory an API can be deprecated in Java 10 and removed in Java 11.
paulddraper 9y ago
> The new Java release train means that there will be a new release of Java every six months. And when the next release comes out, the previous release is obsolete. > In practical terms it means that there are no more security updates from Oracle. What?!? If I have Java 9, I have to upgrade the day Java 10 is released to be secure? I have to do major (i.e. feature breaking) upgrades to get security updates? How is this a sane policy, and how many people are going to be running unpatched Java versions?
- bitwize 9y ago
  Either patch it yourself, or pay Oracle for a support license.
  - indemnity 9y ago
    Anyone who has had any interactions with Oracle before knows this is 100% how they operate. They’re a machine to strip mine money out of your pockets, and they’re always looking for a new angle.
  - tormeh 9y ago
    Sounds reasonable to me. People who expect free support on an open source product mystify me.
    - paulddraper 9y ago
      https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS https://jenkins.io/download/lts/ https://jenkins.io/download/lts/ https://github.com/nodejs/Release https://github.com/nodejs/Release https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0407/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0407/
  - jmiserez 9y ago
    How is a support license going to help? You’ll still have to fix your own applications yourself, Oracle is certainly not going to do that for you.
  - needusername 9y ago
    Oracle offers support only for LTS releases. Oracle does not offer support for Java 9 and will not offer support for Java 10.
- qubex 9y ago
  Oracle? Sane? No.
- kgoutham93 9y ago
  To be fair I think Oracle allows for 3-4 month overlapping period between versions.
princekolt 9y ago
There will come a time when, just like flash, it will simply be easier to uninstall it and move on.
fulafel 9y ago
What are the practical problems Java apps typically run into when upgrading? Or is this more about not wanting to redeploy and test your app every 6 months?
- therealmarv 9y ago
  as with every main version: Things can break. Using a Swing based app which I use every day and which I don't maintain... it did not work properly on Java 9 and I'm not responsible in fixing that.
- needusername 9y ago
  I would say it depends, its quite easy to unknowingly depend on non-standard behavior that can break like HashMap iteration order. What often causes issues is that every release has a new byte code version and the ecosystem relies heavily on byte code libraries so these will have to be updated across the board (eg. you use middleware that uses a framework that uses a byte code library). Things on the top of my head that can break with Java 9: - new gc logging options and format - rt.jar and tools.jar are gone - new JDK layout - Corba, XML and Annotation classes no longer visible by default - application class loader is no longer and URL class loader - a different hack is required to munmap files It's not too bad in general.

63 points by md365 9y ago

therealmarv 9y ago

Thanks. Stayed on Java 8 because had some smaller problems with Java 9. Now I'm happy I stayed with Java 8 (LTS).

md365 9y ago
Ironically, some claims that Java 9 feels like home.

marcodave 9y ago

on one hand, I'm pretty ok with this, it helps more understanding that "hey, you're several security patches behind!" rather than just hiding the information in a build number. what's not really clear at least from the article, how will new APIs be rolled out with this faster release cycle?

dragonwriter 9y ago
New APIs will be part of the every 6 months feature releases. Which means if you aren't on the LTS, you need to stay up with feature releases to get security updates after 6 months.
- needusername 9y ago
  Also old APIs can be removed part of the every 6 months feature releases. In theory an API can be deprecated in Java 10 and removed in Java 11.

paulddraper 9y ago

> The new Java release train means that there will be a new release of Java every six months. And when the next release comes out, the previous release is obsolete. > In practical terms it means that there are no more security updates from Oracle. What?!? If I have Java 9, I have to upgrade the day Java 10 is released to be secure? I have to do major (i.e. feature breaking) upgrades to get security updates? How is this a sane policy, and how many people are going to be running unpatched Java versions?

bitwize 9y ago
Either patch it yourself, or pay Oracle for a support license.
- indemnity 9y ago
  Anyone who has had any interactions with Oracle before knows this is 100% how they operate. They’re a machine to strip mine money out of your pockets, and they’re always looking for a new angle.
- tormeh 9y ago
  Sounds reasonable to me. People who expect free support on an open source product mystify me.
  - paulddraper 9y ago
    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS https://jenkins.io/download/lts/ https://jenkins.io/download/lts/ https://github.com/nodejs/Release https://github.com/nodejs/Release https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0407/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0407/
- jmiserez 9y ago
  How is a support license going to help? You’ll still have to fix your own applications yourself, Oracle is certainly not going to do that for you.
- needusername 9y ago
  Oracle offers support only for LTS releases. Oracle does not offer support for Java 9 and will not offer support for Java 10.
qubex 9y ago
Oracle? Sane? No.
kgoutham93 9y ago
To be fair I think Oracle allows for 3-4 month overlapping period between versions.

princekolt 9y ago

There will come a time when, just like flash, it will simply be easier to uninstall it and move on.

fulafel 9y ago

What are the practical problems Java apps typically run into when upgrading? Or is this more about not wanting to redeploy and test your app every 6 months?

therealmarv 9y ago
as with every main version: Things can break. Using a Swing based app which I use every day and which I don't maintain... it did not work properly on Java 9 and I'm not responsible in fixing that.
needusername 9y ago
I would say it depends, its quite easy to unknowingly depend on non-standard behavior that can break like HashMap iteration order. What often causes issues is that every release has a new byte code version and the ecosystem relies heavily on byte code libraries so these will have to be updated across the board (eg. you use middleware that uses a framework that uses a byte code library). Things on the top of my head that can break with Java 9: - new gc logging options and format - rt.jar and tools.jar are gone - new JDK layout - Corba, XML and Annotation classes no longer visible by default - application class loader is no longer and URL class loader - a different hack is required to munmap files It's not too bad in general.