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My interpretation of the original poster's comment was that they were suggesting that it was a shame that 280North was bought, rather than becoming profitable,

by asnyder 16y ago

My interpretation of the original poster's comment was that they were suggesting that it was a shame that 280North was bought, rather than becoming profitable, thus possibly ending the development of a cool development tool. To me the post sounded as if the poster was suggesting they're were no other cool development tools that were on-par with Cappuccino, thus we should all mourn if they stopped developing. The poster if you recall was not a Cappuccino developer. It's in my opinion, and I'm sure in many others, that there are many other cool development tools, some of which are on-par, if not better in various ways than Cappuccino, many of which don't get the attention or appreciation they should get.

jacquesm 16y ago
I think that's one of the reasons why VC (from a good 'name') is useful, it gets you press, lots of it. Instantly you're news worthy because the press somehow sees you as 'validated', which means they're no longer going out on a limb in writing about you, everybody will be writing about you so they can't be seen as missing the boat. Don't underestimate this effect.
chc 16y ago
If there are many superior tools that don't get the attention they deserve, it doesn't help the situation to hide them behind vague terms like "cool development tools." I stand by what I said: Merely stating that there are "other cool tools" is empty. Somebody else may as well respond, "Nah, other tools suck." Since we're not talking about anything in reality, nobody will be right or wrong, and nobody benefits from reading any of it. I really don't know of any comparable tools that are on par with Cappuccino. There's SproutCore, but at least last time I checked, it seemed to be the lesser in every way except not being dependent on that beast called Objective-J.
- asnyder 16y ago
  There are numerous tools that are on par with Cappuccino in terms of functionality. However, I don't want to create a never ending discussion thread on the new HN, I don't have enough karma or patience to deal with it. I was simply stating a point. You can disagree with it, but I refuse to start any discussion with you. It's obvious from your tone and content that you don't intend to actually have a meaningful discussion.
  - chc 16y ago
    It's not that I disagree with you. It's that you haven't said anything of substance, and I hoped you would. Your comments have merely been dismissive (first toward Cappuccino and now toward me personally). I always appreciate helpful comments even if I disagree with them. I've recently been reinvestigating these Web app frameworks for a new project and not finding much that I loved, so I really did hope you had some useful insights. But oh well, I guess.
    - asnyder 16y ago
      Very well, I'll create a list later tonight listing the most notable ones, along with their features and benefits. I'm sorry for misinterpreting your response.
      - asnyder 16y ago
        List and details are getting pretty long. Seems that I should turn this into a blog post. I'm pretty exhausted so won't be able to finish it tonight. I'll make sure to post before the week is up.
meelash 16y ago
I'm really interested to know some names. I haven't seen anything that allows you to abstract completely away from this multiple language/multiple framework nonsense that web development is mostly (at the most basic level, having to deal with html+css+javascript+frameworks). There are a lot that do a part of it, but none I've seen that are complete and are not plugins. And what about something that comes anywhere near atlas/interface builder+nib2cib? I'm genuinely interested. Now, I need a backup plan in case atlas never comes out alive. :)
- dstein 16y ago
  I am working on JaxScript, which will be the first XML-based abstraction framework for HTML/CSS/JS/DOM. First tech preview version within about a month. http://www.jaxscript.com http://www.jaxscript.com
pchristensen 16y ago
To me the post sounded as if the poster was suggesting they're were no other cool development tools that were on-par with Cappuccino I didn't know of any but I haven't searched extensively (I was keeping it in mind for a future project). I just know that people on HN had given it universal praise, and HN can be a tough crowd. I'm all in favor of a diversity of awesome development tools. Even though I use Ruby, I would be sad if Python went away. I use Lisp, but I would be sad if Haskell went away. I use emacs but would be sad if vim went away. I'm dying to see that list of yours. I hadn't heard of noloh before but thank you for bringing it to my attention. Just remember, if you want your dev tools to be successful, you need to get people talking about them. Best of luck!

by asnyder 16y ago

jacquesm 16y ago

I think that's one of the reasons why VC (from a good 'name') is useful, it gets you press, lots of it. Instantly you're news worthy because the press somehow sees you as 'validated', which means they're no longer going out on a limb in writing about you, everybody will be writing about you so they can't be seen as missing the boat. Don't underestimate this effect.

chc 16y ago

If there are many superior tools that don't get the attention they deserve, it doesn't help the situation to hide them behind vague terms like "cool development tools." I stand by what I said: Merely stating that there are "other cool tools" is empty. Somebody else may as well respond, "Nah, other tools suck." Since we're not talking about anything in reality, nobody will be right or wrong, and nobody benefits from reading any of it. I really don't know of any comparable tools that are on par with Cappuccino. There's SproutCore, but at least last time I checked, it seemed to be the lesser in every way except not being dependent on that beast called Objective-J.

asnyder 16y ago
There are numerous tools that are on par with Cappuccino in terms of functionality. However, I don't want to create a never ending discussion thread on the new HN, I don't have enough karma or patience to deal with it. I was simply stating a point. You can disagree with it, but I refuse to start any discussion with you. It's obvious from your tone and content that you don't intend to actually have a meaningful discussion.
- chc 16y ago
  It's not that I disagree with you. It's that you haven't said anything of substance, and I hoped you would. Your comments have merely been dismissive (first toward Cappuccino and now toward me personally). I always appreciate helpful comments even if I disagree with them. I've recently been reinvestigating these Web app frameworks for a new project and not finding much that I loved, so I really did hope you had some useful insights. But oh well, I guess.
  - asnyder 16y ago
    Very well, I'll create a list later tonight listing the most notable ones, along with their features and benefits. I'm sorry for misinterpreting your response.
    - asnyder 16y ago
      List and details are getting pretty long. Seems that I should turn this into a blog post. I'm pretty exhausted so won't be able to finish it tonight. I'll make sure to post before the week is up.

meelash 16y ago

I'm really interested to know some names. I haven't seen anything that allows you to abstract completely away from this multiple language/multiple framework nonsense that web development is mostly (at the most basic level, having to deal with html+css+javascript+frameworks). There are a lot that do a part of it, but none I've seen that are complete and are not plugins. And what about something that comes anywhere near atlas/interface builder+nib2cib? I'm genuinely interested. Now, I need a backup plan in case atlas never comes out alive. :)

dstein 16y ago
I am working on JaxScript, which will be the first XML-based abstraction framework for HTML/CSS/JS/DOM. First tech preview version within about a month. http://www.jaxscript.com http://www.jaxscript.com

pchristensen 16y ago

To me the post sounded as if the poster was suggesting they're were no other cool development tools that were on-par with Cappuccino I didn't know of any but I haven't searched extensively (I was keeping it in mind for a future project). I just know that people on HN had given it universal praise, and HN can be a tough crowd. I'm all in favor of a diversity of awesome development tools. Even though I use Ruby, I would be sad if Python went away. I use Lisp, but I would be sad if Haskell went away. I use emacs but would be sad if vim went away. I'm dying to see that list of yours. I hadn't heard of noloh before but thank you for bringing it to my attention. Just remember, if you want your dev tools to be successful, you need to get people talking about them. Best of luck!