5 ms·

From a point where he goes slightly off topic, but I really liked it: It's not so much that the game favors evil, but that the definition of "good" is really t

by Aegean 16y ago

From a point where he goes slightly off topic, but I really liked it: It's not so much that the game favors evil, but that the definition of "good" is really twisted: Good adj: anything which increases the stock price. Considerations about employees, products, customers and community are all secondary. They only enter the equation as ways to achieve goal 1. Morality or high principles have no place in the corporate discourse. They maximize the stock price, within the bounds of the law. Corporations like Oracle and Exxon tend to be perfectly rational. They "buy laws" because it's perfectly legal to spend money on lobbyists and political campaigns. While you and I might think that it is morally reprehensible to buy elections, like the recent case with Target, it is nonetheless totally legal. Given the rules of the game, it would be bad for a corporation to not buy an election, if failing to do so would negatively impact their stock price. I could rant for a long time on this one, but not today… The whole modern concept of a public company is deeply flawed. But the game is what it is.

jacquesm 16y ago
That's almost verbatim from this movie iirc: http://www.thecorporation.com/ http://www.thecorporation.com/
- peregrine 16y ago
  Great movie. I tried to get my civics teacher to show it in HS, but my argument that the US is mostly controlled by corps wasn't very good.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    Scary movie too in many ways. Especially the bits about water and cattle / news.
  - Create 16y ago
    To help develop your argument, try: Edward Bernays: Propaganda or the movie "version": Century of the Self (both on archive.org, btw Adam Curtis is about as underrated as Robert Fisk -- no means by accident) Manufacturing Consent (same spirit movie as in the thread) Understanding Power (basically they simplify and reiterate stuff backed up in this book) And and if you are still reading this, have fun reading Dictators, by Jacques Bainville.
    - arethuza 16y ago
      Robert Fisk's "The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East" is strongly recommended - a very personal account, and all the better for it.
- pauldino 16y ago
  ...which, for those who might be interested, is on Hulu: http://www.hulu.com/watch/118169/the-corporation http://www.hulu.com/watch/118169/the-corporation
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    You can actually download the dvds from their main website.
narrator 16y ago
The fundamental goal of capitalism, at least American capitalism, is to increase the amount of passive income generated by business activity. The functional representation of this is that lenders share of economic activity increases and the borrowers share decreases, and you are all borrowers because you pay taxes and the government pays enormous interest on its debts. In fact, the only people who are not borrowers to some extent are those who live off tax free government bonds.
gaius 16y ago
It's a bit unreasonable for him to get his speculative project (Oak) funded on the one hand, yet on the other he has a problem with the corporation actually earning the money to be able to do that. A corporation is a technology, it's the metaphysical form of the factory, it's a tool for transforming low-value inputs into high-value outputs. There simply is no point in talking about the morality of inanimate, non-sentient objects.
- WilliamLP 16y ago
  > A corporation is a technology Yes and a very useful one since it adds +1 trade routes per city.
- hughw 16y ago
  > There simply is no point in talking about the morality of inanimate, non-sentient objects. Agree, and I would add: but they have the legal status of persons, and they invoke human "rights" like the right to own property. They even have the right to freedom of speech (Citizens United). They enlist the political support of naïve voters, asserting government encroachment on these "rights". So they want it both ways: They're machines built to maximize value for shareholders, yet they assert the privileges of citizens too.

by Aegean 16y ago

jacquesm 16y ago

That's almost verbatim from this movie iirc: http://www.thecorporation.com/ http://www.thecorporation.com/

peregrine 16y ago
Great movie. I tried to get my civics teacher to show it in HS, but my argument that the US is mostly controlled by corps wasn't very good.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  Scary movie too in many ways. Especially the bits about water and cattle / news.
- Create 16y ago
  To help develop your argument, try: Edward Bernays: Propaganda or the movie "version": Century of the Self (both on archive.org, btw Adam Curtis is about as underrated as Robert Fisk -- no means by accident) Manufacturing Consent (same spirit movie as in the thread) Understanding Power (basically they simplify and reiterate stuff backed up in this book) And and if you are still reading this, have fun reading Dictators, by Jacques Bainville.
  - arethuza 16y ago
    Robert Fisk's "The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East" is strongly recommended - a very personal account, and all the better for it.
pauldino 16y ago
...which, for those who might be interested, is on Hulu: http://www.hulu.com/watch/118169/the-corporation http://www.hulu.com/watch/118169/the-corporation
- jacquesm 16y ago
  You can actually download the dvds from their main website.

narrator 16y ago

The fundamental goal of capitalism, at least American capitalism, is to increase the amount of passive income generated by business activity. The functional representation of this is that lenders share of economic activity increases and the borrowers share decreases, and you are all borrowers because you pay taxes and the government pays enormous interest on its debts. In fact, the only people who are not borrowers to some extent are those who live off tax free government bonds.

gaius 16y ago

It's a bit unreasonable for him to get his speculative project (Oak) funded on the one hand, yet on the other he has a problem with the corporation actually earning the money to be able to do that. A corporation is a technology, it's the metaphysical form of the factory, it's a tool for transforming low-value inputs into high-value outputs. There simply is no point in talking about the morality of inanimate, non-sentient objects.

WilliamLP 16y ago
> A corporation is a technology Yes and a very useful one since it adds +1 trade routes per city.
hughw 16y ago
> There simply is no point in talking about the morality of inanimate, non-sentient objects. Agree, and I would add: but they have the legal status of persons, and they invoke human "rights" like the right to own property. They even have the right to freedom of speech (Citizens United). They enlist the political support of naïve voters, asserting government encroachment on these "rights". So they want it both ways: They're machines built to maximize value for shareholders, yet they assert the privileges of citizens too.