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We have transferred a TON of this institutional knowledge to China. Now companies like DJI can compete and beat us, and it’s all with knowledge that we transfer

We have transferred a TON of this institutional knowledge to China. Now companies like DJI can compete and beat us, and it’s all with knowledge that we transferred to them in the last 30 years.

ethbro 9y ago
A lot of that transfer was explicitly driven by government policy. If you're ever around the Beijing airport, you'll notice a mushroom patch of well-known non-Chinese companies' facilities. The one constant? More security around the buildings than a military base. I'm not one to beat the US / European nationalistic gong, but it's a fact that the Chinese government has specifically targeted foreign industries to force into tech transfer. And foreign governments generally haven't done anything meaningful about it.
- traek 9y ago
  How has China forced companies into tech transfer? Nobody forces them to manufacture in China.
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    But the PRC can prevent them from selling in China. Shareholders care about the quarterly results. Nobody cares about the company a few years on. The Chinese have a long view on this stuff. If you put out an engineering RFP, you can be sure that Chinese companies and government are probably the biggest web consumers of your content.
  - ethbro 9y ago
    Manufacturing is a large industry, but it's what China was targeting in the 1950s. They're aiming higher now. Most of the tech transfer is around next gen industries, such as batteries. And as for who is forcing foreign companies to do this? Hilariously enough, capitalism. Multinationals can't afford to miss selling to the Chinese market, or their board / shareholder's vote them out. So they're left to strike the best deal they can get, given that the outcome is already known by both parties. (Exceptions like Google exist, but it does have an atypical stock structure) From the Minneapolis Fed (2016), https://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/economic-policy-papers/chinas-foreign-investment https://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/economic-policy-pape... (the first authoritative source I could find): "China’s quid pro quo policy also helps account for the unusual global investment flow. Chinese policy requires multinational firms that want access to China’s huge market to transfer partial property rights to their technology, often through R&D centers or joint ventures with Chinese firms (Holmes, McGrattan and Prescott 2015a, 2015b)."
    - rohit2412 9y ago
      I must disagree. India is a big market too. Then why didn't the multinationals come to share technology and set up manufacturing in India? I think it's got more to do with having decade long focus under a single leadership than have politicians floundering to get reelected every 5 years.
      - shard972 9y ago
        > Then why didn't the multinationals come to share technology and set up manufacturing in India? Because the indian government didn't demand it as a condition of entry like the chinese government did. Have you never wondered why western companies have to engage in 50/50 ventures with chinese companies into china instead of just entering china like they do every other country?
        rohit2412 9y ago
        India used to have such conditions. Look up Hero Honda, Maruti Suzuki etc. What happened was that the MNCs weren't interested at all. India followed with liberalization and removal of such "license raj" in 1991. Economy has done much better since.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
com2kid 9y ago
> Now companies like DJI can compete and beat us DJI hires high quality Chinese engineers. Their software is better than what American consumer drone companies manage to push out, and they can push the latest tech to market insanely quick, as GoPro learned the hard way when they found out DJI was a half generation ahead of them on drone tech. DJI has great customer service, an amazing insurance plan that provides piece of mind, and bullet proof build quality. They do have a major advantage of being in China, so they can work with suppliers much more directly. It doesn't feel like they are using the grey technology market though. A lot of the lower priced drones are obviously put together from Shenzen part bins, but DJI just feels good all around. That said, their Android mobile app is a bit janky at times. Then again, lots of stuff on Android is a bit janky...
- plantain 9y ago
  This is patently untrue - DJI has some of the worst customer service I have ever experienced, especially for a 1000$ device. I spent two months calling every other day trying to resolve a hardware issue and ended up issuing a chargeback before getting any attention. Go read the DJI hardware/software support forums. Never. Again.
  - com2kid 9y ago
    Fair enough, I've seen mixed reports. I have the care program, and everything I've ever seen about that has consisted of people saying they got their drone replaced quickly and without fuss.
  - xemoka 9y ago
    They're great for a toy or a hobbyist, but companies or anyone who relies on the drone tech should look elsewhere. I can relate to awful customer support and even strange software problems that are refused to exist by DJI.
- vuln 9y ago
  Do you remember when the DoD banned use of any DJI drone due to it phoning home everything to China?
gumby 9y ago
Nothing stops you from doing a tear down on a DJI drone and reverse engineering it.

We have transferred a TON of this institutional knowledge to China. Now companies like DJI can compete and beat us, and it’s all with knowledge that we transferred to them in the last 30 years.

ethbro 9y ago

A lot of that transfer was explicitly driven by government policy. If you're ever around the Beijing airport, you'll notice a mushroom patch of well-known non-Chinese companies' facilities. The one constant? More security around the buildings than a military base. I'm not one to beat the US / European nationalistic gong, but it's a fact that the Chinese government has specifically targeted foreign industries to force into tech transfer. And foreign governments generally haven't done anything meaningful about it.

traek 9y ago
How has China forced companies into tech transfer? Nobody forces them to manufacture in China.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  But the PRC can prevent them from selling in China. Shareholders care about the quarterly results. Nobody cares about the company a few years on. The Chinese have a long view on this stuff. If you put out an engineering RFP, you can be sure that Chinese companies and government are probably the biggest web consumers of your content.
- ethbro 9y ago
  Manufacturing is a large industry, but it's what China was targeting in the 1950s. They're aiming higher now. Most of the tech transfer is around next gen industries, such as batteries. And as for who is forcing foreign companies to do this? Hilariously enough, capitalism. Multinationals can't afford to miss selling to the Chinese market, or their board / shareholder's vote them out. So they're left to strike the best deal they can get, given that the outcome is already known by both parties. (Exceptions like Google exist, but it does have an atypical stock structure) From the Minneapolis Fed (2016), https://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/economic-policy-papers/chinas-foreign-investment https://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/economic-policy-pape... (the first authoritative source I could find): "China’s quid pro quo policy also helps account for the unusual global investment flow. Chinese policy requires multinational firms that want access to China’s huge market to transfer partial property rights to their technology, often through R&D centers or joint ventures with Chinese firms (Holmes, McGrattan and Prescott 2015a, 2015b)."
  - rohit2412 9y ago
    I must disagree. India is a big market too. Then why didn't the multinationals come to share technology and set up manufacturing in India? I think it's got more to do with having decade long focus under a single leadership than have politicians floundering to get reelected every 5 years.
    - shard972 9y ago
      > Then why didn't the multinationals come to share technology and set up manufacturing in India? Because the indian government didn't demand it as a condition of entry like the chinese government did. Have you never wondered why western companies have to engage in 50/50 ventures with chinese companies into china instead of just entering china like they do every other country?
      - rohit2412 9y ago
        India used to have such conditions. Look up Hero Honda, Maruti Suzuki etc. What happened was that the MNCs weren't interested at all. India followed with liberalization and removal of such "license raj" in 1991. Economy has done much better since.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

com2kid 9y ago

> Now companies like DJI can compete and beat us DJI hires high quality Chinese engineers. Their software is better than what American consumer drone companies manage to push out, and they can push the latest tech to market insanely quick, as GoPro learned the hard way when they found out DJI was a half generation ahead of them on drone tech. DJI has great customer service, an amazing insurance plan that provides piece of mind, and bullet proof build quality. They do have a major advantage of being in China, so they can work with suppliers much more directly. It doesn't feel like they are using the grey technology market though. A lot of the lower priced drones are obviously put together from Shenzen part bins, but DJI just feels good all around. That said, their Android mobile app is a bit janky at times. Then again, lots of stuff on Android is a bit janky...

plantain 9y ago
This is patently untrue - DJI has some of the worst customer service I have ever experienced, especially for a 1000$ device. I spent two months calling every other day trying to resolve a hardware issue and ended up issuing a chargeback before getting any attention. Go read the DJI hardware/software support forums. Never. Again.
- com2kid 9y ago
  Fair enough, I've seen mixed reports. I have the care program, and everything I've ever seen about that has consisted of people saying they got their drone replaced quickly and without fuss.
- xemoka 9y ago
  They're great for a toy or a hobbyist, but companies or anyone who relies on the drone tech should look elsewhere. I can relate to awful customer support and even strange software problems that are refused to exist by DJI.
vuln 9y ago
Do you remember when the DoD banned use of any DJI drone due to it phoning home everything to China?

gumby 9y ago

Nothing stops you from doing a tear down on a DJI drone and reverse engineering it.