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This is so intellectually dishonest it borders on insult. > the idea that you can take large amounts of time off and still be at the same level as people who k

by Jare 9y ago

This is so intellectually dishonest it borders on insult. > the idea that you can take large amounts of time off and still be at the same level as people who kept working is insane Here you talk about the "career of raising children" > only women can get pregnant, give birth, and breast feed And then you proceed to justify it with an activity that on average probably lasts for about a year and can in large part be made compatible with a professional life. The average SV hacker brags about taking longer sabbaticals than this.

belorn 9y ago
Should be a fairly easy social experiment to do. Take a good sample size of families (>20000) and provide compulsory paid leave (and counselors that checks that no extra work is being spent at home or the government pay is taken away) so that both parents are away from home at exactly equal amount from inception until the kid moves out. After 20 years, compare the control with those families that successful follows the trial (and for fun, throw in people who take sabbaticals as a third group) and see the results. Have poll questions about the size of social support networks, social status, income, carer, stress, perception of self worth, and so on. Last make a follow up in 50 years for life span and final carer, pensions and social support networks. I have some predictions for all of those, backed by the research I have seen so far, but it would make for a very interesting read if such study would be made.
zaroth 9y ago
That first quote was someone else's comment, but I don't see anything wrong with the premise. Trajectory and velocity are absolutely properties of career advancement. There's also the question of whether women with children at home are working the same number of hours at the office as men, even after they return to work. Let's throw in the average willingness of a male partner to limit their own career by prioritizing taking care of children over needs of their employer as a factor as well. Children take an enormous amount of time and money to raise. And the amount of time and money we spend raising our children has increased significantly, as the age of maturity continues to increase (anecdotally this has gone well past 18 years old now, it seems children on average are being taken care of by their parents well into their 20s now). Someone in the family needs to be able to get home to make dinner every night. If you mostly can't travel for your company, that's a big limiting factor for high paying jobs. If you can't stay past 5 oclock without it being an issue that needs to be planned for, that's a big limiting factor for high paying jobs. If you get called away from an important meeting because your child is sent home from school with a cold... It's reasonable for employers to pay more to employees which can offer a higher level of service and flexibility and accommodation for work schedule and travel requirements. One (or more) parental figures in the household need to elect to be on-call, and whoever makes that choice is going to see less outside income because of it. Equality doesn't mean that men and women need to make the same choices, just that a man and woman who do make the same choice should see the same outcome. What the statistics are showing us is merely that men and women, on average, tend to have different preferences and make different choices.

by Jare 9y ago

belorn 9y ago

Should be a fairly easy social experiment to do. Take a good sample size of families (>20000) and provide compulsory paid leave (and counselors that checks that no extra work is being spent at home or the government pay is taken away) so that both parents are away from home at exactly equal amount from inception until the kid moves out. After 20 years, compare the control with those families that successful follows the trial (and for fun, throw in people who take sabbaticals as a third group) and see the results. Have poll questions about the size of social support networks, social status, income, carer, stress, perception of self worth, and so on. Last make a follow up in 50 years for life span and final carer, pensions and social support networks. I have some predictions for all of those, backed by the research I have seen so far, but it would make for a very interesting read if such study would be made.

zaroth 9y ago

That first quote was someone else's comment, but I don't see anything wrong with the premise. Trajectory and velocity are absolutely properties of career advancement. There's also the question of whether women with children at home are working the same number of hours at the office as men, even after they return to work. Let's throw in the average willingness of a male partner to limit their own career by prioritizing taking care of children over needs of their employer as a factor as well. Children take an enormous amount of time and money to raise. And the amount of time and money we spend raising our children has increased significantly, as the age of maturity continues to increase (anecdotally this has gone well past 18 years old now, it seems children on average are being taken care of by their parents well into their 20s now). Someone in the family needs to be able to get home to make dinner every night. If you mostly can't travel for your company, that's a big limiting factor for high paying jobs. If you can't stay past 5 oclock without it being an issue that needs to be planned for, that's a big limiting factor for high paying jobs. If you get called away from an important meeting because your child is sent home from school with a cold... It's reasonable for employers to pay more to employees which can offer a higher level of service and flexibility and accommodation for work schedule and travel requirements. One (or more) parental figures in the household need to elect to be on-call, and whoever makes that choice is going to see less outside income because of it. Equality doesn't mean that men and women need to make the same choices, just that a man and woman who do make the same choice should see the same outcome. What the statistics are showing us is merely that men and women, on average, tend to have different preferences and make different choices.