6 ms·

The point of having to ~"force fathers to take time off" rings true to me, I'd even go as far as forcing both parents to take some minimum time (and maybe of eq

by jlg23 9y ago

The point of having to ~"force fathers to take time off" rings true to me, I'd even go as far as forcing both parents to take some minimum time (and maybe of equal length) off: It would relieve all parents of the pressure to justify why they "put family before career".

zeveb 9y ago
That's just the time off, though: once both parents are back at work, no law can force them both to devote equal mental & temporal resources to childraising. I suspect very strongly that even with forced equality of parental leave, we would see mothers devoting more attention to their children than do father.
david38 9y ago
Wow. You know there are sci-fi books written about a world were some people are not allowed to be better than others? If you have some advantage, you have to do extra so it's nullified. Seriously, who are you to tell me how to run my family life? Your arrogance is astonishing. I suppose if I don't push my kids just the right amount you're going to claim you know enough about how all children will turn out to revoke my parental rights? I had children when I was in college. I suppose I should have been forced to fail one of my semesters, or do only good and proper people who do things the right way count? My wife wanted to stay home for many years. I suppose I should tell her she was full of shit for not wanting to make more money? You think it would relieve pressure to justify putting family before career? Again, wow. These are ADULTS. If they are so fucking wrapped up in peer pressure they can't decide if they should take care of their own babies they don't deserve their own children. Seriously, at what point are people responsible for themselves? Where does the nanny state end? Now we have to force men to not work because some people might get get their feelings hurt? Fuck them.
- jlg23 9y ago
  I was talking about making it accepted that people, no matter the gender, take time off after birth of a child. If one parent decides to stay at home for years, we are not talking about parental leave anymore. And of course everybody should be free to make that decision. But nobody should be forced to decide one or the other way because of gender-specific roles or a lack of affordable daycare. And finally I believe that, by forcing everyone to think about how to accommodate parents in work life, we, as a society, will find solutions that can benefit all.
- mschuster91 9y ago
  > Seriously, who are you to tell me how to run my family life? Your arrogance is astonishing. The point of worker rights is to provide equal footing for everyone. Your boss would certainly like it if there were no mandatory holidays/PTO... > Now we have to force men to not work because some people might get get their feelings hurt? Fuck them. No, but in order to provide equal chances for the kids' development in early life. This is valuable for society as early child-parent bonding issues will lead to issues later on in life. In addition, by forcing employers to provide PTO for fresh parents, they cannot (legally) force those who cannot object to work. Yes, it might be 6 months or whatever time out for a couple managers but an immediate benefit to millions of poor parents. I assume you're from the US? Well, try to come over to Europe and work here, with such things as workers' rights, minimum PTO per year, proper health insurance systems... sounds socialist as hell but guess what? Our people are happier and more productive.
  - nathanasmith 9y ago
    >come over to Europe >Our people are happier and more productive. The US ranks 14th in happiness ahead of the majority of European countries. Europe as a whole ranks between 42 and 43[0] The US ranks 6th in productivity, again ahead of the vast majority of European countries and far ahead of the European average[1] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2017_World_Happiness_Report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2017_Wo... [1]https://www.expertmarket.co.uk/focus/worlds-most-productive-countries-2017 https://www.expertmarket.co.uk/focus/worlds-most-productive-...
    - mschuster91 9y ago
      > The US ranks 14th in happiness ahead of the majority of European countries. The top 6 in said index is occupied by European countries - and all 8 European countries ranked before the US in said index are routinely bashed in the US as being prime examples of "socialist" hellholes. > The US ranks 6th in productivity, again ahead of the vast majority of European countries and far ahead of the European average[1] Well, it's not that hard to beat European countries if you're working 300 hours per year more than them... and the core question is: how much of the US "productivity" originates from the scamming going on at Wall Street, i.e. it has no meaningful human labor associated by which this "profit" was created?

by jlg23 9y ago

zeveb 9y ago

That's just the time off, though: once both parents are back at work, no law can force them both to devote equal mental & temporal resources to childraising. I suspect very strongly that even with forced equality of parental leave, we would see mothers devoting more attention to their children than do father.

david38 9y ago

Wow. You know there are sci-fi books written about a world were some people are not allowed to be better than others? If you have some advantage, you have to do extra so it's nullified. Seriously, who are you to tell me how to run my family life? Your arrogance is astonishing. I suppose if I don't push my kids just the right amount you're going to claim you know enough about how all children will turn out to revoke my parental rights? I had children when I was in college. I suppose I should have been forced to fail one of my semesters, or do only good and proper people who do things the right way count? My wife wanted to stay home for many years. I suppose I should tell her she was full of shit for not wanting to make more money? You think it would relieve pressure to justify putting family before career? Again, wow. These are ADULTS. If they are so fucking wrapped up in peer pressure they can't decide if they should take care of their own babies they don't deserve their own children. Seriously, at what point are people responsible for themselves? Where does the nanny state end? Now we have to force men to not work because some people might get get their feelings hurt? Fuck them.

jlg23 9y ago
I was talking about making it accepted that people, no matter the gender, take time off after birth of a child. If one parent decides to stay at home for years, we are not talking about parental leave anymore. And of course everybody should be free to make that decision. But nobody should be forced to decide one or the other way because of gender-specific roles or a lack of affordable daycare. And finally I believe that, by forcing everyone to think about how to accommodate parents in work life, we, as a society, will find solutions that can benefit all.
mschuster91 9y ago
> Seriously, who are you to tell me how to run my family life? Your arrogance is astonishing. The point of worker rights is to provide equal footing for everyone. Your boss would certainly like it if there were no mandatory holidays/PTO... > Now we have to force men to not work because some people might get get their feelings hurt? Fuck them. No, but in order to provide equal chances for the kids' development in early life. This is valuable for society as early child-parent bonding issues will lead to issues later on in life. In addition, by forcing employers to provide PTO for fresh parents, they cannot (legally) force those who cannot object to work. Yes, it might be 6 months or whatever time out for a couple managers but an immediate benefit to millions of poor parents. I assume you're from the US? Well, try to come over to Europe and work here, with such things as workers' rights, minimum PTO per year, proper health insurance systems... sounds socialist as hell but guess what? Our people are happier and more productive.
- nathanasmith 9y ago
  >come over to Europe >Our people are happier and more productive. The US ranks 14th in happiness ahead of the majority of European countries. Europe as a whole ranks between 42 and 43[0] The US ranks 6th in productivity, again ahead of the vast majority of European countries and far ahead of the European average[1] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2017_World_Happiness_Report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2017_Wo... [1]https://www.expertmarket.co.uk/focus/worlds-most-productive-countries-2017 https://www.expertmarket.co.uk/focus/worlds-most-productive-...
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    > The US ranks 14th in happiness ahead of the majority of European countries. The top 6 in said index is occupied by European countries - and all 8 European countries ranked before the US in said index are routinely bashed in the US as being prime examples of "socialist" hellholes. > The US ranks 6th in productivity, again ahead of the vast majority of European countries and far ahead of the European average[1] Well, it's not that hard to beat European countries if you're working 300 hours per year more than them... and the core question is: how much of the US "productivity" originates from the scamming going on at Wall Street, i.e. it has no meaningful human labor associated by which this "profit" was created?