4 ms·

So by 'no one', you mean the Office of US National Intelligence (who are made up of career employees), right? Here is their full report: https://www.dni.gov/fi

So by 'no one', you mean the Office of US National Intelligence (who are made up of career employees), right? Here is their full report: https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf From the report: "We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump. Moscow’s influence campaign followed a Russian messaging strategy that blends covert intelligence operations—such as cyber activity—with overt efforts by Russian Government agencies, state-funded media, third-party intermediaries, and paid social media users or 'trolls.'"

ars 9y ago
I didn't read the report, but your quote just says they tried. It doesn't say anything on if they actually succeeded. Find a quote that says they actually succeeded in having influence over Trump, and maybe that would be a valid argument.
- jacobolus 9y ago
  There’s a mountain of circumstantial evidence (most recently, the Trump administration’s flat refusal to implement the Russian sanctions https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/29/us/politics/trump-russia-sanctions.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/29/us/politics/trump-russia-... which had passed both houses of Congress almost unanimously, and were signed by Trump because they realized a veto would be overridden). If you want you can peruse a very extensive timeline, http://billmoyers.com/story/trump-russia-timeline/ http://billmoyers.com/story/trump-russia-timeline/ (to get much out of this you need to actually read the linked stories, which takes considerable time and effort; this is a complex case and public knowledge dribbles out in bits and pieces, and the purpose of a timeline like this is to collect them not to provide high-level analysis. I’m not sure if there is a concise coherent summary anywhere.) The special counsel is presumably constructing a more fleshed out case looking at proving a direct quid pro quo, using witness testimony, financial records, etc. All of that investigation is currently secret however.
  - ars 9y ago
    > most recently, the Trump administration’s flat refusal to implement the Russian sanctions And not that long ago he put more sanctions on them than was requested by Obama. So you can not read anything into that. I skimmed your timeline. It's pretty much junk. You can make a timeline like for basically anyone. If you have enough public activity some of it is going to line up. > All of that investigation is currently secret however. That's not an excuse for you to declare case over. So far every time people claim to have some evidence or other, it's all been nothing. Trump says a lot of stupid things, but I've never found anything that makes him beholden to the Russians. And in fact, even if they did help him, Trump, of all people, would feel perfectly free to completely not care. He's already well known for ignoring political norms. Ignoring the norm of helping people who help you would be completely typical for him.
    - jacobolus 9y ago
      Even if we assume for the sake of argument that the Russians don’t have compromising material used for blackmail (something for which we have circumstantial but not direct public evidence), Trump has spent 20 years making his living from Russian money laundering. Why do you think he would “completely not care”? Who said the “case was over”? It’s clearly an ongoing investigation, which will hopefully be allowed to proceed to its conclusion despite the president’s ham-handed efforts to obstruct it. Why do you think Trump’s campaign was so filled with people traveling back and forth to Russia, having secret meetings with Russian intelligence assets, trying to set up secure communications channels directly to the Russian government, and so on? Why do you think they have spent so much effort on publicly lying about those meetings and communications, and so much effort on shutting down the investigation about it?
    - Larrikin 9y ago
      >And not that long ago he put more sanctions on them than was requested by Obama. So you can not read anything into that. Are you referring to this? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-sanctions/trump-administration-holds-off-on-new-russia-sanctions-despite-law https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-sanctions/trum...
- eswoo 9y ago
  Antiviral doesn't claim anything one way or the other about an attempt to influence Trump; just the election.
- josefresco 9y ago
  I get you're just trolling (f*ck me for feeding the tolls), but there's more than just "a quote" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-sanctions/trump-administration-holds-off-on-new-russia-sanctions-despite-law-idUSKBN1FI2V7 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-sanctions/trum...

ars 9y ago

I didn't read the report, but your quote just says they tried. It doesn't say anything on if they actually succeeded. Find a quote that says they actually succeeded in having influence over Trump, and maybe that would be a valid argument.

jacobolus 9y ago
There’s a mountain of circumstantial evidence (most recently, the Trump administration’s flat refusal to implement the Russian sanctions https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/29/us/politics/trump-russia-sanctions.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/29/us/politics/trump-russia-... which had passed both houses of Congress almost unanimously, and were signed by Trump because they realized a veto would be overridden). If you want you can peruse a very extensive timeline, http://billmoyers.com/story/trump-russia-timeline/ http://billmoyers.com/story/trump-russia-timeline/ (to get much out of this you need to actually read the linked stories, which takes considerable time and effort; this is a complex case and public knowledge dribbles out in bits and pieces, and the purpose of a timeline like this is to collect them not to provide high-level analysis. I’m not sure if there is a concise coherent summary anywhere.) The special counsel is presumably constructing a more fleshed out case looking at proving a direct quid pro quo, using witness testimony, financial records, etc. All of that investigation is currently secret however.
- ars 9y ago
  > most recently, the Trump administration’s flat refusal to implement the Russian sanctions And not that long ago he put more sanctions on them than was requested by Obama. So you can not read anything into that. I skimmed your timeline. It's pretty much junk. You can make a timeline like for basically anyone. If you have enough public activity some of it is going to line up. > All of that investigation is currently secret however. That's not an excuse for you to declare case over. So far every time people claim to have some evidence or other, it's all been nothing. Trump says a lot of stupid things, but I've never found anything that makes him beholden to the Russians. And in fact, even if they did help him, Trump, of all people, would feel perfectly free to completely not care. He's already well known for ignoring political norms. Ignoring the norm of helping people who help you would be completely typical for him.
  - jacobolus 9y ago
    Even if we assume for the sake of argument that the Russians don’t have compromising material used for blackmail (something for which we have circumstantial but not direct public evidence), Trump has spent 20 years making his living from Russian money laundering. Why do you think he would “completely not care”? Who said the “case was over”? It’s clearly an ongoing investigation, which will hopefully be allowed to proceed to its conclusion despite the president’s ham-handed efforts to obstruct it. Why do you think Trump’s campaign was so filled with people traveling back and forth to Russia, having secret meetings with Russian intelligence assets, trying to set up secure communications channels directly to the Russian government, and so on? Why do you think they have spent so much effort on publicly lying about those meetings and communications, and so much effort on shutting down the investigation about it?
  - Larrikin 9y ago
    >And not that long ago he put more sanctions on them than was requested by Obama. So you can not read anything into that. Are you referring to this? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-sanctions/trump-administration-holds-off-on-new-russia-sanctions-despite-law https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-sanctions/trum...
eswoo 9y ago
Antiviral doesn't claim anything one way or the other about an attempt to influence Trump; just the election.
josefresco 9y ago
I get you're just trolling (f*ck me for feeding the tolls), but there's more than just "a quote" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-sanctions/trump-administration-holds-off-on-new-russia-sanctions-despite-law-idUSKBN1FI2V7 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-sanctions/trum...