4 ms·

The sad reality is, this type of behavior is not confined to one party or the other. Money should have no place in politics, otherwise you end up with a plutoc

The sad reality is, this type of behavior is not confined to one party or the other. Money should have no place in politics, otherwise you end up with a plutocracy in a democracies clothing, which is where we have been for some time now. Equifax is just one of many. After the 2008 financial crisis, no major banking executives saw jailtime. After the Volkswagen scandal on evading emissions tests, only a few low-level scapegoats got pinched. After Valeant systematically acquired and gutted the R&D of countless drug companies, only to raise the prices on existing drugs to levels far unreachable for the average customer, their CEO remained unscathed. The US government is not a democracy and hasn't been for a long time. It can be bought, and those with deep pockets are treated as sovereign and effectively un-jailable. I'm sure this criticism applies beyond the US as well, but I'm less familiar with other governments.

openasocket 9y ago
Volkswagen Executive Oliver Schmidt was just sentenced to 4 years in prison in the US a few months ago. And 8 other former and current Volkswagen executives have been charged by US prosecutors. Though I doubt any of the others are dumb enough to step foot on American soil.
- solaxun 9y ago
  I figured there would be fact checking: "what about this person?". Yes, I know there were some repercussions e.g. Schmidt for Volkswagen, and some really small players in the financial crisis, but overall most of the top guys walk away clean. There is always a scapegoat. Orders come from the top down - you make an example by cutting off the head, not the limbs (forgive the violent euphemism, but you get the spirit)
  - openasocket 9y ago
    I completely agree about the financial crisis. But for Volkswagen, remember that pretty much all the top executive are German citizens, living in Germany, a country that is running their own separate investigation of Volkswagen. The US can't grab them, and Germany isn't going to extradite. The only reason we got Schmidt (who was their head of environmental and engineering issues in the US, not exactly a small fish) was because he was dumb enough to visit the US on vacation. I'm just saying, you can't really blame the US for the lack of prosecution.
    - solaxun 9y ago
      Fair point... I think I just wanted to give a few examples that quickly came to mind. Maybe Volkswagen wasn't the best one.
KirinDave 9y ago
> The sad reality is, this type of behavior is not confined to one party or the other. Money should have no place in politics, otherwise you end up with a plutocracy in a democracies clothing, which is where we have been for some time now. I don't disagree in general, but in specifics: the GOP has decided the CFPB is going to die, on principle. The CFPB was an awesome and forwards-thinking organization and if we are going to rely on government interventions, they're the type of organization we need to oversee the results. I've worked with an at fintech companies and the CFPB was incredibly friendly and honest with everyone I've talked to. And having worked at a bank, having that agency as an empowered and potentially wrathful actor was very healthy, agency wide, imo. I agree there are major campaign finance issues, but let's at least give the Democrats credit for backing and empowering such an agency. It is absolutely necessary.
Latty 9y ago
While the US uses FPTP and the Electoral College, it is never going to be more than a "least bad" system for voters. "Least-bad" of two options isn't democracy, or rather, it's democracy in the same way that it was in the past when only land owners or men were allowed to vote - a distorted version of the idea that only pays lip service to the goals we talk about it having. FPTP is horrifically broken here in the UK where at least we have some minority parties that at least influence the situation (which has it's own issues). The US culture of a two party system is so ingrained it's crazy. It always strikes me hardest whenever people talk about "bipartisanship". It's odd to me to so blatantly admit that only two parties matter, even if that is, and has been, the reality.
bomb199 9y ago
> The sad reality is, this type of behavior is not confined to one party or the other Certainly, not only one party engages in corrupt behavior. That doesn't make them equivalent. They're not even close, and the relentless attempts of "both sides do it" are part of the reason we're in this mess.
- SmirkingRevenge 9y ago
  But whats the objective measure of corruption or otherwise unethical behavior, that delineates the difference? For most, I think, its mostly confirmation bias.

openasocket 9y ago

Volkswagen Executive Oliver Schmidt was just sentenced to 4 years in prison in the US a few months ago. And 8 other former and current Volkswagen executives have been charged by US prosecutors. Though I doubt any of the others are dumb enough to step foot on American soil.

solaxun 9y ago
I figured there would be fact checking: "what about this person?". Yes, I know there were some repercussions e.g. Schmidt for Volkswagen, and some really small players in the financial crisis, but overall most of the top guys walk away clean. There is always a scapegoat. Orders come from the top down - you make an example by cutting off the head, not the limbs (forgive the violent euphemism, but you get the spirit)
- openasocket 9y ago
  I completely agree about the financial crisis. But for Volkswagen, remember that pretty much all the top executive are German citizens, living in Germany, a country that is running their own separate investigation of Volkswagen. The US can't grab them, and Germany isn't going to extradite. The only reason we got Schmidt (who was their head of environmental and engineering issues in the US, not exactly a small fish) was because he was dumb enough to visit the US on vacation. I'm just saying, you can't really blame the US for the lack of prosecution.
  - solaxun 9y ago
    Fair point... I think I just wanted to give a few examples that quickly came to mind. Maybe Volkswagen wasn't the best one.

KirinDave 9y ago

> The sad reality is, this type of behavior is not confined to one party or the other. Money should have no place in politics, otherwise you end up with a plutocracy in a democracies clothing, which is where we have been for some time now. I don't disagree in general, but in specifics: the GOP has decided the CFPB is going to die, on principle. The CFPB was an awesome and forwards-thinking organization and if we are going to rely on government interventions, they're the type of organization we need to oversee the results. I've worked with an at fintech companies and the CFPB was incredibly friendly and honest with everyone I've talked to. And having worked at a bank, having that agency as an empowered and potentially wrathful actor was very healthy, agency wide, imo. I agree there are major campaign finance issues, but let's at least give the Democrats credit for backing and empowering such an agency. It is absolutely necessary.

Latty 9y ago

While the US uses FPTP and the Electoral College, it is never going to be more than a "least bad" system for voters. "Least-bad" of two options isn't democracy, or rather, it's democracy in the same way that it was in the past when only land owners or men were allowed to vote - a distorted version of the idea that only pays lip service to the goals we talk about it having. FPTP is horrifically broken here in the UK where at least we have some minority parties that at least influence the situation (which has it's own issues). The US culture of a two party system is so ingrained it's crazy. It always strikes me hardest whenever people talk about "bipartisanship". It's odd to me to so blatantly admit that only two parties matter, even if that is, and has been, the reality.

bomb199 9y ago

> The sad reality is, this type of behavior is not confined to one party or the other Certainly, not only one party engages in corrupt behavior. That doesn't make them equivalent. They're not even close, and the relentless attempts of "both sides do it" are part of the reason we're in this mess.

SmirkingRevenge 9y ago
But whats the objective measure of corruption or otherwise unethical behavior, that delineates the difference? For most, I think, its mostly confirmation bias.