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The Russians didn't force ~45% of eligible voters to be apathetic, nor did they force the DNC to rig the game against Bernie Sanders or make people protest vote

by ljm 9y ago

The Russians didn't force ~45% of eligible voters to be apathetic, nor did they force the DNC to rig the game against Bernie Sanders or make people protest vote against Hillary Clinton. The system is fucked in all kinds of ways but the only people responsible for that particular mess are the non-voters themselves: they gave the 55% a much louder voice. The rest is the kind of influencing that happens everywhere, when every country is trying to serve its best interests. Russia, Mexico, immigration, capitalism, Democrats/Republicans...all of these are to some extent scapegoats so the people of the US don't have to take a deep look at themselves and realise that the change needs to come from within. As the saying goes, if everybody else is the problem...

untog 9y ago
> The Russians didn't force ~45% of eligible voters to be apathetic They didn't "force" anyone to do anything, but it's a mistake to characterise what they do as aggressively pushing for a single candidate. Making people believe that the political system is not worth engaging in is absolutely a valid goal. I'm not saying that 45% of the US didn't vote because of Russia, I'm just saying it's also not 0%.
- ljm 9y ago
  It's a fair point. Most intriguing to me is the reaction to even the allegation of external meddling, where there seems to be an element of surprise or disbelief. Many Western governments have meddled and interfered in the name of their own imperialistic foreign policies yet it appears unthinkable to some that it could ever be returned in kind. It's certainly not a mentality unique to the US (with Brexit you can swap Russia for Europe and get a similar result, for example). I choose to see it as a lack of self awareness, where being apathetic is good when everything happens the way you like it, but is everybody else's fault when it takes a turn for the worse.

by ljm 9y ago

untog 9y ago

> The Russians didn't force ~45% of eligible voters to be apathetic They didn't "force" anyone to do anything, but it's a mistake to characterise what they do as aggressively pushing for a single candidate. Making people believe that the political system is not worth engaging in is absolutely a valid goal. I'm not saying that 45% of the US didn't vote because of Russia, I'm just saying it's also not 0%.

ljm 9y ago
It's a fair point. Most intriguing to me is the reaction to even the allegation of external meddling, where there seems to be an element of surprise or disbelief. Many Western governments have meddled and interfered in the name of their own imperialistic foreign policies yet it appears unthinkable to some that it could ever be returned in kind. It's certainly not a mentality unique to the US (with Brexit you can swap Russia for Europe and get a similar result, for example). I choose to see it as a lack of self awareness, where being apathetic is good when everything happens the way you like it, but is everybody else's fault when it takes a turn for the worse.