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Lost so much $ on cryptocurenecy . what to do

48 points by hamiltonians 9y ago

I invested a w 6-figure number on bitcoin and etherum 2 months ago. Watched a profit turn into a large loss. Pretty uh I am paralyzed. Work going downhill. My life feels ruined Any advice

uptown 9y ago
I'm not qualified to provide the kind of support you may need, but try to maintain some perspective that any investment that you've lost is of little significance compared to your life, your passions, your interests and everything else this world has to offer. Please speak with your family and friends, and if you need professionals to help you cope with what you're feeling, give the National Suicide Prevention Hotline a call. https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
daemin 9y ago
Same thing applies to the stock market. You have 2 options: Sell now and accept the loss and move on. This will be a hard thing to accept but you will not have lost everything. Suck it up and wait for it to appreciate further. This may take years or you could lose the lot. Edit: I am not a financial adviser.
- daemin 9y ago
  Edit #2: There's actually a third option. If you really believe that the price will go up in the future and you're not in the need of the money for that time, buy more.
everdev 9y ago
Sounds like a difficult time. Sorry to hear about your struggles. Life is a long game. Investing is too. Unless you need the money to live, I'd give yourself a timeframe like 6 months and sell your investment by then when you feel the time is right. Don't panic though as 6 months is an eternity for cryptocurrency. Unfortunately huge losses and common with volatile investments. I have my money in ETFs. When the cryptocoins are 10xing in value it's hard not to get jealous but I prefer relative safety vs huge swings. Same thing in life. It might help to check your happiness in 2 weeks, a month, 3 months. It seems like forever when things aren't going well, but it's not that long in terms of a long life. It also never hurts to find a coach or counselor you can talk to in person. $100-150/hr sounds like a lot but with the right person you can get a lot of value too and hopefully a fresh perspective.
patatino 9y ago
If you don't need the money right now I would just do nothing and wait, I think it will recover, could take weeks, months. Edit: I am not a financial adviser.
davelnewton 9y ago
This too shall pass.
promise2behave 9y ago
Did you honestly not consider this when making the initial investment? Why do people think cryptocurrencies automatically equal free money? Same with every high risk investment, never put in anything you can't afford to lose. Edit: I am a financial advisor, because this is the internet and I can be what I want. Mom said
Talyen42 9y ago
50% drops in crypto happen 3-6 times a year. That's every 8 weeks. Get used to regular crashes, or get out of the investment.
- sundaeofshock 9y ago
  Which makes it a horrible investment. This isn't some minor correction; this looks like a bubble popping. It is currently off 61.5% from it's high mark, having given back all of it's gains from the last three months. The people who drove it to it's previous highs are taking a beating right now; they are not going to get back in and re-inflate this bubble. Note: I am not financial advisor. Speak to a professional before you light massive piles of money on fire. (edited for spelling)
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
seibelj 9y ago
You should look into a philosophy called stoicism. You have lost money, but it sounds like you still have your health. Many people would trade every penny they have and more to be able to walk, breathe, and live unencumbered. It's only money - you can make more. Things can always be worse, and always be better.
- saiya-jin 9y ago
  This. And unless the OP used some creepy leverage or borrowed massively, he only lost the money he had. If he is at least a bit able, there is invaluable lesson in this experience and rest of the life to make things better and better for oneself. You hit the bottom. Now the only way is up.
- subtenante 9y ago
  Not to be pedantic, but Stoics do not attach to health either. Only virtue.
  - seibelj 9y ago
    Yes, I was trying to help him practice negative visualization, by imagining a worse outcome than his current situation. But stoicism can greatly help you with medical issues, many people have used its tenants to overcome debilitating circumstances. I think using a catastrophic medical event, like a terminal illness diagnosis, is a good technique when trying to consider if a situation is really that bad. Of course, a terminal illness diagnosis is also something that can be accepted and overcome with stoic resolve, but it is a good yardstick for something like losing a lot of money with an investment.
    - yesenadam 9y ago
      Sorry to maybe be off topic.. Gee, almost every day, or multiple times a day, I read mention of Stoicism (usually M Aurelius, occasionally Seneca) on HN. And almost never any other type of philosophy (in the wisdom of life sense).. I guess Ayn Rand a few times. I wonder why that is. It's surprising because I don't think I came across anything about Stoicism more than once every year or two before I came on here.
troydavis 9y ago
I am not a financial advisor and this is not advice. Consult a professional. First, completely ignore anyone who says “I think it will go <up|down>, so you should…” or “Sell when the time is right.” Trying to time a momentum-driven investment and failing is what got you in to this problem. The first step is acknowledging that this was a dumb thing to do and that you don’t have any more skills at reading this market than anyone else (and some random commenter sure doesn’t). Second, that matters because it lets you reach this conclusion: your current portfolio value is all that matters. You can’t undo the losses, but you have complete control of what happens to the remaining principal. You bought a very expensive lottery ticket, it didn’t win, and now all you can do is decide whether to buy a second very expensive lottery ticket (hold) or learn from your mistake and do something smarter, like actually investing this. Ask whether, today, you can afford to have X% of your investable assets in a single asset. Based on your post, it sounds like X is a large number, maybe even over 50%. Assuming you can't afford it, start here: https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/guide-to-diversification https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/guide-to-diversification Note that you don't need a plan in order to liquidate and hold cash. Don't get hung up on not having a plan; cash is a fine asset. The other reason acknowledging to yourself that you can’t time the market matters is that, if you sell and then it goes back up, you shouldn’t feel any worse about it than, say, if Google’s stock or some random smallcap stock went way up and you didnt own it. You didn’t “miss out” on anything, you opted for diversification and predictability - that is, market-average returns - ahead of a lottery ticket. (ObDisc: None of this is a commentary on cryptocurrencies, good or bad, only on taking outsized risks with money one can’t afford to lose without caring. OP’s remaining principal obviously is not that or s/he wouldn’t be here.) Third, after dealing with the time-sensitive stuff, consider seeing a therapist to see whether some underlying issue led you to take this much risk. Not at all a value judgment, but taking huge risks with money you can’t afford to lose may be a manifestation of self-destructive tendencies or at least a sign that it’s time to make some changes in your normal life. Good luck. PS in case it makes you feel a little better: many people have spent a larger percentage of their assets self-funding a startup than you lost – and also gave up years of their life and opportunity cost to do it. Life goes on. The important part is to incorporate what you've learned into future decisions (starting now), and to assess what led you to do this in the first place.
- 9y ago
cwperkins 9y ago
I'm really perplexed as to why people would not want to buy into market tracking ETFs or Blue chips that pay dividends. For a young person a portfolio of this nature provides a healthy amount of risk while having historically good returns. The crypto crazy is not regulated and extremely volatile, I can't quite see how people are referring to it as an "investment" when there's not a great way of computing intrinsic value as analysts do with company valuations.
- lykr0n 9y ago
  Because 500% gains look better than 10%, until you factor in the risk. Coinbase and Robinhood make it easy for people to get into the crypto game without understanding the risks. They see the big returns, and think the train won't stop until after they get off. ETFs are graded from a 1 to a 5 for risk. Crypto goes well beyond that scale. I think it comes down to our nature to take $10 today and not $50 next year. It's hard to send 10% of your income to a 401k knowing that that money is locked away for another 40 years. This will, I think, naturally cause people to dump money into stuff like Crypto; the line is going up and stories abound of people turning $1k into $100k. Nobody reads beyond the headline to find out that they held over years. There is no warning on Coinbase saying "hey. you should not due this to the extreme volatility" for any transaction over $500. And when you hit ok, you are asked again "You realize that there is a good chance that you will lose this money?". Coinbase (and I'm not picking on them, but they are the only ones I know) don't care. They want the commission. Schwab, what I use, has a feature that says "Yo. You got some F Grade stocks. You ... You shouldn't do that unless you really know what you are doing."
  - cwperkins 9y ago
    Crypto has actually made me had a phase-shift in my feelings towards capitalism in general. I think a healthy amount of inequality and competition need to exist for an innovative and inventive society. Crypto has taught me that it's really just human nature to want a get-rich-quick scheme and retire younger than 30 years old. The funny thing I find in all of this is that if someone purely believes crypto is the future, then exchange rates back to fiat currency wouldn't matter. This crash has taught me that all crypto people care about is the ratio to USD and that to me proves that people have faith in the Dollar.
gressquel 9y ago
I am so sorry to hear it. First you have to do is cut your losses. Sell all the crypto and widthdraw them to your banks asap. Its all collapsing like a house of cards. Secondly, zoom out and reflect on your life. You have your health, probably a caring family and new opportunities in life. Do something you like, and enjoy your life.
drukenemo 9y ago
Had lunch with an investment advisor yesterday, here's what he told me: if a client of his is suffering from losses, and also worrying that they may lose more, he tells them to sell their position. You eat up your loss, but earn the relief from the day to day stress, fearing to lose more. I thought this was sound advice. Take your mistakes as lessons learned. Many lessons learned are extremely tough. Everyone goes through many of these throughout their lives. They're still a lesson nonetheless. This shall pass, you've lost money, but gained in experience. You've tried something. Taking risks is an essential thing in life if you want to grow from your status quo. It's a matter of learning to better assess the risks the next time. Your past and present need not equal your future. Money is abundant. Skills are more rare. Focus on skills that enable you to grow. Learn to take better risks the next time and you increase the odds to your favor in the future. All the best to you.
- pc86 9y ago
  The alternative (and better) advice is that if you have the funds to support it, buy more. It lowers your cost basis so the required rebound for you to break even is less. The obvious pitfall is that a continued decline means you lose even more, trying to catch a falling knife, etc etc. But for things like the stock market generally, as opposed to a specific stock or any cryptocurrency, this is a safe bet in the long term, provided you're not gambling with money you can't afford to lose.
  - quickthrower2 9y ago
    This guy probably shouldn't do that. But your point may hold well for yielding investments in general. For crypto? Who knows it is pretty new so I laugh when people give investment advice about it.
  - celticninja 9y ago
    I think this makes sense in the stockmarket which is much more established than cryptocurrencies which are not. The stockmarket is unlikely to ever fall to 0 and if it does then there are much bigger issues going on that you don't need to worry about it. But bitcoin or ethereum could well plummet to single digits and you could lose your entire investment. This guy invested a lump sum and if he isnt happy to lose it all he should withdraw what he can and cut his losses. If he didnt take a loan out, or used cash that was otherwise going to be use for investing it may be adviseable to hold onto it for 12-24 months and check back then.
mtgx 9y ago
Why did you invest more than you could afford to lose? This advice is literally everywhere on Reddit and even YouTube. If you can't stomach 20%, 50%, or even 90% drops in your portfolio's value, then you clearly invested more than you could afford to lose. Did you really think you could just get in at any point in the crypto lifecycle and the value would keep rising, and rising, and rising? Especially if you got in when there was a media frenzy? We seem to be approaching the "despair" phase, as your post clearly implies: http://www.thegoldandoilguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Stages-for-AAPL.png http://www.thegoldandoilguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/S... Remember you only take the loss if you sell now. Do with that information what you will. But I think in a year's time you'll regret selling for 2/3 loss. And you'll probably want to get in again after the crypto value has risen another 10x, and all the media talks about it. but with only 1/3 or less of your money. Rinse and repeat.
zethraeus 9y ago
I'm really sorry. You've suffered a large loss. You'll have to find some way to draw a line in between your present and your past, and to move on. Make a decision about cutting your losses on this investment based on the understanding that anything you leave in could plausibly depreciate further. Enumerate your opportunities. Focus on how you can use and build them in the long term.
jordan801 9y ago
I would just hold on. And next time don't put money in, that you can't afford to lose.
frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
You should get a financial adviser. Your problem is that you didn't understand your own risk tolerance. There is no such thing as free money and as you get higher and higher returns, you're accepting higher and higher risk. When you invested in crypto you were thinking about returns but not about the risks (in all fairness crypto evangelists never advertise this half of the equation.) So go get a financial adviser and talk with him about your risk tolerance, how big of a dip in your portfolio can you withstand, that sort of stuff. That'll help you going forward with your money. As for now, well you're in a bit of psychological bind. No one knows whether crypto is going to be $6000 tomorrow or $8000 and no one knows what it might be in a month. You can't time the market - whether that makes you hold or sell (or partial sale), that's your own decision but you'll have to live with it so really mull it over. If you do sell I would advise totally cutting any crypto news out of your life, if you sit there and watch the price you'll feel sick, no matter which way it goes and if it does peak over your sale price again you'll constantly think you could have timed it (you couldn't have, that's why you're not sure whether to sell or not now.) Also you need to keep work from going downhill, at this point you need your cashflow. If that means a short vacation to reset that's up to you but no watching crypto prices on vacation! TLDR: you gambled and you're not a gambler. Don't do it again and keep your job in good order.
jfaucett 9y ago
You have a couple options. I'll list them in order of increasing risks, and my order of recommendation. 1. You can sell now and cut your rather massive losses - I'm guessing that's around 40-50% of your initial investment based on a two month old purchase. Advantage: You save any further losses and have no more continued stress (this is big!). 2. You set a price floor and/or ceiling and sell when it hits that level. Same as above but you gain the ability to define a range for potentially cutting losses at the risk of increasing them. The advantage here is you decide the level of continued risk and lack of peace of mind you're willing to live with. 3. You settle in, accept you can lose every cent you invested, and just hold long term, hoping that eventually (1 year, 5 years, 10 years?) you'll make your money back. One thing to keep in mind with all this is the opportunity cost of capital i.e. a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow, 100k in a bank account in 2017 is roughly equivalent to 130k in 2027, so if your investment reaches a value of 100k in 2027 you'll still be operating at a rather large loss.
- cesarb 9y ago
  You can also do a hybrid approach. For instance, you can do option 1 with half your stash and option 3 with the other half.
- skylark 9y ago
  It's even worse than that. Assuming a modest 5% stock market yield, you'll be at ~160k after a decade. At 8% you would have roughly doubled your 100k to 200k. The average person doesn't need Bitcoin. They need Vanguard.
thebighodler 9y ago
HODL!!!!!
xiphias 9y ago
I felt bad the first time it happened to me, but I have gone through multiple of these downs, and just got more used to it. Focus on other areas of your life, you have enough BTC to get rich if the experiment succeeds. Selling at this point is statistically bad decision (the price usually doesn't go more than 90% down, and there's no new known problem with the BTC protocol)
Applejinx 9y ago
Do you have food? Do you have housing? Seems worthwhile to gauge how much risk you were taking on, relative to how much you missed out on an opportunity to get a huge amount of money additional to what you've already got. Do you have collections coming after you for anything, do you have people in your life that you don't dare tell that you can't keep your commitments to them? It seems to me the real question here is whether you are in danger or distress, or whether you're treating distress to your profits as distress to yourself. Hence the practical questions.
icedchai 9y ago
You're never "investing" in crypto. You're gambling. How badly do you need the money? What percentage of your net worth did you put into crypto? I advise keeping less than 10% in speculative assets.
- rmwaite 9y ago
  This is a foolish thing to say. If you follow your line of reasoning all investment is gambling.
  - ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
    Without insider knowledge I feel that it is. The odds may be great given financial history but it still is. And so is life in general.
  - icedchai 9y ago
    Not really. My line is reasoning is that crypto has no fundamentals to support it. When you invest in a stock, you have financial metrics: revenue, profit, assets, cash flow, and other business activity... something you can equate to actual monetary value. Most crypto behaves like a penny stock, with the same sort of pump-and-dump schemes, relatively low volumes, and many people trading on hype, hoping to get rich quick. Bitcoin swings wildly for almost any reason, or no reason at all. Yes, you can make money with it, but I wouldn't suggest anyone invest the majority of their cash into it.
Apreche 9y ago
Just learn your lesson for next time. Don't fall for scams.
autokad 9y ago
I bought facebook at 25$/share shortly after IPO. It was getting hammered, and I got scared out of it and sold at 22$. a year later it was in the 150s. i bought alibaba for 115$/share shortly after its ipo. it sank like a rock almost immediately after. it continued to the 60s I think, but i held onto it because i believed in the story and its worth. I eventually sold at 185$/share about a year later. not sure if this helps you though, stocks and cryptos are fundamentally different. I didnt look at current numbers, I looked at the story and what I believed was ahead.
- icedchai 9y ago
  This sounds like an exaggeration. Facebook didn't rise that quickly. The FB IPO was in 2012, and it didn't get into the 150's until 2017. There was plenty of time in between to get back in after seeing the uptrend. (Full disclosure: I've been holding since 31.)
  - autokad 9y ago
    ops, bad memory, didnt realize that much time has gone by. it stuck in the 20s for a year, the following year in 2014 it was in the mid 60s for a 3x return. even from 2012 - 2017, you are still looking at 6x returns, which is very good.
brador 9y ago
It’s just money. Take the L and go to work tomorrow like nothing happened.
knocte 9y ago
You should have listened to this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg
berberous 9y ago
You need PERSONAL advice here. How old are you? How much other money do you have? What's your earning potential? Wife? Kids? Risk tolerance? PERSONALLY, if it were me, I would hold on, and I'd bet you will get back to being in the black. That said, you need to understand this is an EXTREMELY risky investment, and it could essentially go to zero just as easily as BTC could go to $50k. If you are not OK watching all that money go to zero, sell. If you are not OK watching BTC go to $50k having sold it ALL, sell most of it, and keep some. Realize you have gambling tendencies, and make a plan to get out. You sound like the kind of person who will double down when it gets up to $30K/BTC, and then cry again when it crashes even harder. Don't bet money you can't stomach losing in this space. There are WAY too many failure modes.
pliftkl 9y ago
You're one of the first people I've seen on the internet actually admit this. Over the last month, as the price has dropped, many people have pointed out "sure, it's dropped - back to November price levels". Which is fine if you invested a year ago, not so much if you invested in December. When I sold six weeks ago, there was someone on the other side buying, and they are clearly not happy now.
mamcx 9y ago
> Work going downhill. My life feels ruined Any advice I would try to paid attention to this first. How can this mistake ruin your life? Or is just many other things accumulating? The loss of money is a done deal, but the others look like solvable things. ---- After taking care of the other more important things, look at the investment and use the advice elsewhere. Also, you can understand this: You still have the same value of BTC/ETH, but is the conversion to USD that is suffering. Is like if you get 1 bar of gold, was a US100 now US50. But you still have the gold. You HAVE NOT LOSE BTC/ETH. Is the CONVERSION MARKET that is VOLATILE. Now, some investors are hungry for cheap BTC/ETH. You could turn a minor "profit" for it. Also, you can FORGET ABOUT THE USD and start trading to increase the amount of BTC/ETh. If the loss is so bad, lose all is acceptable to you? Then after you mind is free of FEAR, you can only get up. And if not, is already a lost cause, cause that you have accepted. Or just wait. P.D: I also "lost" the value of my cryptos. I'm not on hurt because I never put my life on risk.
fspear 9y ago
Keep a portion of your eth and invest in promising ICOs.
msp_dude 9y ago
I mined bitcoins for 2 weeks in Feb 2009, backed up to an unlabeled floppy, and forgot about it. Until I accidentally crushed my then coaster and threw it away 2 months ago. 550 coins. My best advice is: no coffee, no booze, no drugs, try to sleep, exercise, See a doctor, physical and mental. Pay a financial advisor and get an impartial ( not on this forum, opinion of what to do. ). Take a low stress vacation, cruises are good, clearing your head is what vacations are for. Science says you need AT LEAST 2 weeks to de-stress, so make it real. Either you take a vacation, or your job takes a permanent one from you. It's a loss, possibly not permanent, but it was a gamble. I had no gamble, just an 8 figure loss.
petraeus 9y ago
You're best holding it and wait for it to pop again, theres suckers like you every minute
bitconion 9y ago
buying bitcoins, you may want to hedge your risks using futures or options derivatives (i.e. to use your bought bitcoins to get corresponding derivative contracts). There is a handful of exchanges for that (bitmex, deribit and maybe some more). if your lose in crypto you will get compensation in derivatives and vice versa. though this would require some knowledge (not the rocket science of course), there are invest firms that can help
gesman 9y ago
Cryptos are volatile. Check news stories and price charts back few years and see if you notice any patterns. Buying at wrong time is painful. Selling at wrong time is double painful.
quickthrower2 9y ago
If possible you need to emotionally let go that you had that money. Easier said than done. It's going to be hard - but there is someone out there with the same job and same amount of assets as you, who isn't unhappy because they never had the higher amount and lost it. Logically you can be as happy as that guy. How you got the money in the first place may have a bearing here. If you worked hard for it or it is inherited there could be anger/guilt attached. It's worth thinking about and processing that. Work is kind of a separate issue and probably totally fixable. A separate ASK HN or StackOverflow question might help there get you in the right direction. Get a financial adviser is a good point mentioned below. Also if you are in financial difficulty you should get advice about that too (debt consolidation etc.). Should you hold the coins? I don't know. I've lost a bit of money. Not trivial but not devastating amount. I will probably hold it for a few years. I went in knowing I could lose it though so I thought about "what if this happens" already.
lettergram 9y ago
Write off what you can on your taxes.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

48 points by hamiltonians 9y ago

I invested a w 6-figure number on bitcoin and etherum 2 months ago. Watched a profit turn into a large loss. Pretty uh I am paralyzed. Work going downhill. My life feels ruined Any advice

uptown 9y ago

I'm not qualified to provide the kind of support you may need, but try to maintain some perspective that any investment that you've lost is of little significance compared to your life, your passions, your interests and everything else this world has to offer. Please speak with your family and friends, and if you need professionals to help you cope with what you're feeling, give the National Suicide Prevention Hotline a call. https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/

daemin 9y ago

Same thing applies to the stock market. You have 2 options: Sell now and accept the loss and move on. This will be a hard thing to accept but you will not have lost everything. Suck it up and wait for it to appreciate further. This may take years or you could lose the lot. Edit: I am not a financial adviser.

daemin 9y ago
Edit #2: There's actually a third option. If you really believe that the price will go up in the future and you're not in the need of the money for that time, buy more.

everdev 9y ago

Sounds like a difficult time. Sorry to hear about your struggles. Life is a long game. Investing is too. Unless you need the money to live, I'd give yourself a timeframe like 6 months and sell your investment by then when you feel the time is right. Don't panic though as 6 months is an eternity for cryptocurrency. Unfortunately huge losses and common with volatile investments. I have my money in ETFs. When the cryptocoins are 10xing in value it's hard not to get jealous but I prefer relative safety vs huge swings. Same thing in life. It might help to check your happiness in 2 weeks, a month, 3 months. It seems like forever when things aren't going well, but it's not that long in terms of a long life. It also never hurts to find a coach or counselor you can talk to in person. $100-150/hr sounds like a lot but with the right person you can get a lot of value too and hopefully a fresh perspective.

patatino 9y ago

If you don't need the money right now I would just do nothing and wait, I think it will recover, could take weeks, months. Edit: I am not a financial adviser.

davelnewton 9y ago

This too shall pass.

promise2behave 9y ago

Did you honestly not consider this when making the initial investment? Why do people think cryptocurrencies automatically equal free money? Same with every high risk investment, never put in anything you can't afford to lose. Edit: I am a financial advisor, because this is the internet and I can be what I want. Mom said

Talyen42 9y ago

50% drops in crypto happen 3-6 times a year. That's every 8 weeks. Get used to regular crashes, or get out of the investment.

sundaeofshock 9y ago
Which makes it a horrible investment. This isn't some minor correction; this looks like a bubble popping. It is currently off 61.5% from it's high mark, having given back all of it's gains from the last three months. The people who drove it to it's previous highs are taking a beating right now; they are not going to get back in and re-inflate this bubble. Note: I am not financial advisor. Speak to a professional before you light massive piles of money on fire. (edited for spelling)

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

seibelj 9y ago

You should look into a philosophy called stoicism. You have lost money, but it sounds like you still have your health. Many people would trade every penny they have and more to be able to walk, breathe, and live unencumbered. It's only money - you can make more. Things can always be worse, and always be better.

saiya-jin 9y ago
This. And unless the OP used some creepy leverage or borrowed massively, he only lost the money he had. If he is at least a bit able, there is invaluable lesson in this experience and rest of the life to make things better and better for oneself. You hit the bottom. Now the only way is up.
subtenante 9y ago
Not to be pedantic, but Stoics do not attach to health either. Only virtue.
- seibelj 9y ago
  Yes, I was trying to help him practice negative visualization, by imagining a worse outcome than his current situation. But stoicism can greatly help you with medical issues, many people have used its tenants to overcome debilitating circumstances. I think using a catastrophic medical event, like a terminal illness diagnosis, is a good technique when trying to consider if a situation is really that bad. Of course, a terminal illness diagnosis is also something that can be accepted and overcome with stoic resolve, but it is a good yardstick for something like losing a lot of money with an investment.
  - yesenadam 9y ago
    Sorry to maybe be off topic.. Gee, almost every day, or multiple times a day, I read mention of Stoicism (usually M Aurelius, occasionally Seneca) on HN. And almost never any other type of philosophy (in the wisdom of life sense).. I guess Ayn Rand a few times. I wonder why that is. It's surprising because I don't think I came across anything about Stoicism more than once every year or two before I came on here.

troydavis 9y ago

I am not a financial advisor and this is not advice. Consult a professional. First, completely ignore anyone who says “I think it will go <up|down>, so you should…” or “Sell when the time is right.” Trying to time a momentum-driven investment and failing is what got you in to this problem. The first step is acknowledging that this was a dumb thing to do and that you don’t have any more skills at reading this market than anyone else (and some random commenter sure doesn’t). Second, that matters because it lets you reach this conclusion: your current portfolio value is all that matters. You can’t undo the losses, but you have complete control of what happens to the remaining principal. You bought a very expensive lottery ticket, it didn’t win, and now all you can do is decide whether to buy a second very expensive lottery ticket (hold) or learn from your mistake and do something smarter, like actually investing this. Ask whether, today, you can afford to have X% of your investable assets in a single asset. Based on your post, it sounds like X is a large number, maybe even over 50%. Assuming you can't afford it, start here: https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/guide-to-diversification https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/guide-to-diversification Note that you don't need a plan in order to liquidate and hold cash. Don't get hung up on not having a plan; cash is a fine asset. The other reason acknowledging to yourself that you can’t time the market matters is that, if you sell and then it goes back up, you shouldn’t feel any worse about it than, say, if Google’s stock or some random smallcap stock went way up and you didnt own it. You didn’t “miss out” on anything, you opted for diversification and predictability - that is, market-average returns - ahead of a lottery ticket. (ObDisc: None of this is a commentary on cryptocurrencies, good or bad, only on taking outsized risks with money one can’t afford to lose without caring. OP’s remaining principal obviously is not that or s/he wouldn’t be here.) Third, after dealing with the time-sensitive stuff, consider seeing a therapist to see whether some underlying issue led you to take this much risk. Not at all a value judgment, but taking huge risks with money you can’t afford to lose may be a manifestation of self-destructive tendencies or at least a sign that it’s time to make some changes in your normal life. Good luck. PS in case it makes you feel a little better: many people have spent a larger percentage of their assets self-funding a startup than you lost – and also gave up years of their life and opportunity cost to do it. Life goes on. The important part is to incorporate what you've learned into future decisions (starting now), and to assess what led you to do this in the first place.

9y ago

cwperkins 9y ago

I'm really perplexed as to why people would not want to buy into market tracking ETFs or Blue chips that pay dividends. For a young person a portfolio of this nature provides a healthy amount of risk while having historically good returns. The crypto crazy is not regulated and extremely volatile, I can't quite see how people are referring to it as an "investment" when there's not a great way of computing intrinsic value as analysts do with company valuations.

lykr0n 9y ago
Because 500% gains look better than 10%, until you factor in the risk. Coinbase and Robinhood make it easy for people to get into the crypto game without understanding the risks. They see the big returns, and think the train won't stop until after they get off. ETFs are graded from a 1 to a 5 for risk. Crypto goes well beyond that scale. I think it comes down to our nature to take $10 today and not $50 next year. It's hard to send 10% of your income to a 401k knowing that that money is locked away for another 40 years. This will, I think, naturally cause people to dump money into stuff like Crypto; the line is going up and stories abound of people turning $1k into $100k. Nobody reads beyond the headline to find out that they held over years. There is no warning on Coinbase saying "hey. you should not due this to the extreme volatility" for any transaction over $500. And when you hit ok, you are asked again "You realize that there is a good chance that you will lose this money?". Coinbase (and I'm not picking on them, but they are the only ones I know) don't care. They want the commission. Schwab, what I use, has a feature that says "Yo. You got some F Grade stocks. You ... You shouldn't do that unless you really know what you are doing."
- cwperkins 9y ago
  Crypto has actually made me had a phase-shift in my feelings towards capitalism in general. I think a healthy amount of inequality and competition need to exist for an innovative and inventive society. Crypto has taught me that it's really just human nature to want a get-rich-quick scheme and retire younger than 30 years old. The funny thing I find in all of this is that if someone purely believes crypto is the future, then exchange rates back to fiat currency wouldn't matter. This crash has taught me that all crypto people care about is the ratio to USD and that to me proves that people have faith in the Dollar.

gressquel 9y ago

I am so sorry to hear it. First you have to do is cut your losses. Sell all the crypto and widthdraw them to your banks asap. Its all collapsing like a house of cards. Secondly, zoom out and reflect on your life. You have your health, probably a caring family and new opportunities in life. Do something you like, and enjoy your life.

drukenemo 9y ago

Had lunch with an investment advisor yesterday, here's what he told me: if a client of his is suffering from losses, and also worrying that they may lose more, he tells them to sell their position. You eat up your loss, but earn the relief from the day to day stress, fearing to lose more. I thought this was sound advice. Take your mistakes as lessons learned. Many lessons learned are extremely tough. Everyone goes through many of these throughout their lives. They're still a lesson nonetheless. This shall pass, you've lost money, but gained in experience. You've tried something. Taking risks is an essential thing in life if you want to grow from your status quo. It's a matter of learning to better assess the risks the next time. Your past and present need not equal your future. Money is abundant. Skills are more rare. Focus on skills that enable you to grow. Learn to take better risks the next time and you increase the odds to your favor in the future. All the best to you.

pc86 9y ago
The alternative (and better) advice is that if you have the funds to support it, buy more. It lowers your cost basis so the required rebound for you to break even is less. The obvious pitfall is that a continued decline means you lose even more, trying to catch a falling knife, etc etc. But for things like the stock market generally, as opposed to a specific stock or any cryptocurrency, this is a safe bet in the long term, provided you're not gambling with money you can't afford to lose.
- quickthrower2 9y ago
  This guy probably shouldn't do that. But your point may hold well for yielding investments in general. For crypto? Who knows it is pretty new so I laugh when people give investment advice about it.
- celticninja 9y ago
  I think this makes sense in the stockmarket which is much more established than cryptocurrencies which are not. The stockmarket is unlikely to ever fall to 0 and if it does then there are much bigger issues going on that you don't need to worry about it. But bitcoin or ethereum could well plummet to single digits and you could lose your entire investment. This guy invested a lump sum and if he isnt happy to lose it all he should withdraw what he can and cut his losses. If he didnt take a loan out, or used cash that was otherwise going to be use for investing it may be adviseable to hold onto it for 12-24 months and check back then.

mtgx 9y ago

Why did you invest more than you could afford to lose? This advice is literally everywhere on Reddit and even YouTube. If you can't stomach 20%, 50%, or even 90% drops in your portfolio's value, then you clearly invested more than you could afford to lose. Did you really think you could just get in at any point in the crypto lifecycle and the value would keep rising, and rising, and rising? Especially if you got in when there was a media frenzy? We seem to be approaching the "despair" phase, as your post clearly implies: http://www.thegoldandoilguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Stages-for-AAPL.png http://www.thegoldandoilguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/S... Remember you only take the loss if you sell now. Do with that information what you will. But I think in a year's time you'll regret selling for 2/3 loss. And you'll probably want to get in again after the crypto value has risen another 10x, and all the media talks about it. but with only 1/3 or less of your money. Rinse and repeat.

zethraeus 9y ago

I'm really sorry. You've suffered a large loss. You'll have to find some way to draw a line in between your present and your past, and to move on. Make a decision about cutting your losses on this investment based on the understanding that anything you leave in could plausibly depreciate further. Enumerate your opportunities. Focus on how you can use and build them in the long term.

jordan801 9y ago

I would just hold on. And next time don't put money in, that you can't afford to lose.

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago

You should get a financial adviser. Your problem is that you didn't understand your own risk tolerance. There is no such thing as free money and as you get higher and higher returns, you're accepting higher and higher risk. When you invested in crypto you were thinking about returns but not about the risks (in all fairness crypto evangelists never advertise this half of the equation.) So go get a financial adviser and talk with him about your risk tolerance, how big of a dip in your portfolio can you withstand, that sort of stuff. That'll help you going forward with your money. As for now, well you're in a bit of psychological bind. No one knows whether crypto is going to be $6000 tomorrow or $8000 and no one knows what it might be in a month. You can't time the market - whether that makes you hold or sell (or partial sale), that's your own decision but you'll have to live with it so really mull it over. If you do sell I would advise totally cutting any crypto news out of your life, if you sit there and watch the price you'll feel sick, no matter which way it goes and if it does peak over your sale price again you'll constantly think you could have timed it (you couldn't have, that's why you're not sure whether to sell or not now.) Also you need to keep work from going downhill, at this point you need your cashflow. If that means a short vacation to reset that's up to you but no watching crypto prices on vacation! TLDR: you gambled and you're not a gambler. Don't do it again and keep your job in good order.

jfaucett 9y ago

You have a couple options. I'll list them in order of increasing risks, and my order of recommendation. 1. You can sell now and cut your rather massive losses - I'm guessing that's around 40-50% of your initial investment based on a two month old purchase. Advantage: You save any further losses and have no more continued stress (this is big!). 2. You set a price floor and/or ceiling and sell when it hits that level. Same as above but you gain the ability to define a range for potentially cutting losses at the risk of increasing them. The advantage here is you decide the level of continued risk and lack of peace of mind you're willing to live with. 3. You settle in, accept you can lose every cent you invested, and just hold long term, hoping that eventually (1 year, 5 years, 10 years?) you'll make your money back. One thing to keep in mind with all this is the opportunity cost of capital i.e. a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow, 100k in a bank account in 2017 is roughly equivalent to 130k in 2027, so if your investment reaches a value of 100k in 2027 you'll still be operating at a rather large loss.

cesarb 9y ago
You can also do a hybrid approach. For instance, you can do option 1 with half your stash and option 3 with the other half.
skylark 9y ago
It's even worse than that. Assuming a modest 5% stock market yield, you'll be at ~160k after a decade. At 8% you would have roughly doubled your 100k to 200k. The average person doesn't need Bitcoin. They need Vanguard.

thebighodler 9y ago

HODL!!!!!

xiphias 9y ago

I felt bad the first time it happened to me, but I have gone through multiple of these downs, and just got more used to it. Focus on other areas of your life, you have enough BTC to get rich if the experiment succeeds. Selling at this point is statistically bad decision (the price usually doesn't go more than 90% down, and there's no new known problem with the BTC protocol)

Applejinx 9y ago

Do you have food? Do you have housing? Seems worthwhile to gauge how much risk you were taking on, relative to how much you missed out on an opportunity to get a huge amount of money additional to what you've already got. Do you have collections coming after you for anything, do you have people in your life that you don't dare tell that you can't keep your commitments to them? It seems to me the real question here is whether you are in danger or distress, or whether you're treating distress to your profits as distress to yourself. Hence the practical questions.

icedchai 9y ago

You're never "investing" in crypto. You're gambling. How badly do you need the money? What percentage of your net worth did you put into crypto? I advise keeping less than 10% in speculative assets.

rmwaite 9y ago
This is a foolish thing to say. If you follow your line of reasoning all investment is gambling.
- ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
  Without insider knowledge I feel that it is. The odds may be great given financial history but it still is. And so is life in general.
- icedchai 9y ago
  Not really. My line is reasoning is that crypto has no fundamentals to support it. When you invest in a stock, you have financial metrics: revenue, profit, assets, cash flow, and other business activity... something you can equate to actual monetary value. Most crypto behaves like a penny stock, with the same sort of pump-and-dump schemes, relatively low volumes, and many people trading on hype, hoping to get rich quick. Bitcoin swings wildly for almost any reason, or no reason at all. Yes, you can make money with it, but I wouldn't suggest anyone invest the majority of their cash into it.

Apreche 9y ago

Just learn your lesson for next time. Don't fall for scams.

autokad 9y ago

I bought facebook at 25$/share shortly after IPO. It was getting hammered, and I got scared out of it and sold at 22$. a year later it was in the 150s. i bought alibaba for 115$/share shortly after its ipo. it sank like a rock almost immediately after. it continued to the 60s I think, but i held onto it because i believed in the story and its worth. I eventually sold at 185$/share about a year later. not sure if this helps you though, stocks and cryptos are fundamentally different. I didnt look at current numbers, I looked at the story and what I believed was ahead.

icedchai 9y ago
This sounds like an exaggeration. Facebook didn't rise that quickly. The FB IPO was in 2012, and it didn't get into the 150's until 2017. There was plenty of time in between to get back in after seeing the uptrend. (Full disclosure: I've been holding since 31.)
- autokad 9y ago
  ops, bad memory, didnt realize that much time has gone by. it stuck in the 20s for a year, the following year in 2014 it was in the mid 60s for a 3x return. even from 2012 - 2017, you are still looking at 6x returns, which is very good.

brador 9y ago

It’s just money. Take the L and go to work tomorrow like nothing happened.

knocte 9y ago

You should have listened to this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg

berberous 9y ago

You need PERSONAL advice here. How old are you? How much other money do you have? What's your earning potential? Wife? Kids? Risk tolerance? PERSONALLY, if it were me, I would hold on, and I'd bet you will get back to being in the black. That said, you need to understand this is an EXTREMELY risky investment, and it could essentially go to zero just as easily as BTC could go to $50k. If you are not OK watching all that money go to zero, sell. If you are not OK watching BTC go to $50k having sold it ALL, sell most of it, and keep some. Realize you have gambling tendencies, and make a plan to get out. You sound like the kind of person who will double down when it gets up to $30K/BTC, and then cry again when it crashes even harder. Don't bet money you can't stomach losing in this space. There are WAY too many failure modes.

pliftkl 9y ago

You're one of the first people I've seen on the internet actually admit this. Over the last month, as the price has dropped, many people have pointed out "sure, it's dropped - back to November price levels". Which is fine if you invested a year ago, not so much if you invested in December. When I sold six weeks ago, there was someone on the other side buying, and they are clearly not happy now.

mamcx 9y ago

> Work going downhill. My life feels ruined Any advice I would try to paid attention to this first. How can this mistake ruin your life? Or is just many other things accumulating? The loss of money is a done deal, but the others look like solvable things. ---- After taking care of the other more important things, look at the investment and use the advice elsewhere. Also, you can understand this: You still have the same value of BTC/ETH, but is the conversion to USD that is suffering. Is like if you get 1 bar of gold, was a US100 now US50. But you still have the gold. You HAVE NOT LOSE BTC/ETH. Is the CONVERSION MARKET that is VOLATILE. Now, some investors are hungry for cheap BTC/ETH. You could turn a minor "profit" for it. Also, you can FORGET ABOUT THE USD and start trading to increase the amount of BTC/ETh. If the loss is so bad, lose all is acceptable to you? Then after you mind is free of FEAR, you can only get up. And if not, is already a lost cause, cause that you have accepted. Or just wait. P.D: I also "lost" the value of my cryptos. I'm not on hurt because I never put my life on risk.

fspear 9y ago

Keep a portion of your eth and invest in promising ICOs.

msp_dude 9y ago

I mined bitcoins for 2 weeks in Feb 2009, backed up to an unlabeled floppy, and forgot about it. Until I accidentally crushed my then coaster and threw it away 2 months ago. 550 coins. My best advice is: no coffee, no booze, no drugs, try to sleep, exercise, See a doctor, physical and mental. Pay a financial advisor and get an impartial ( not on this forum, opinion of what to do. ). Take a low stress vacation, cruises are good, clearing your head is what vacations are for. Science says you need AT LEAST 2 weeks to de-stress, so make it real. Either you take a vacation, or your job takes a permanent one from you. It's a loss, possibly not permanent, but it was a gamble. I had no gamble, just an 8 figure loss.

petraeus 9y ago

You're best holding it and wait for it to pop again, theres suckers like you every minute

bitconion 9y ago

buying bitcoins, you may want to hedge your risks using futures or options derivatives (i.e. to use your bought bitcoins to get corresponding derivative contracts). There is a handful of exchanges for that (bitmex, deribit and maybe some more). if your lose in crypto you will get compensation in derivatives and vice versa. though this would require some knowledge (not the rocket science of course), there are invest firms that can help

gesman 9y ago

Cryptos are volatile. Check news stories and price charts back few years and see if you notice any patterns. Buying at wrong time is painful. Selling at wrong time is double painful.

quickthrower2 9y ago

If possible you need to emotionally let go that you had that money. Easier said than done. It's going to be hard - but there is someone out there with the same job and same amount of assets as you, who isn't unhappy because they never had the higher amount and lost it. Logically you can be as happy as that guy. How you got the money in the first place may have a bearing here. If you worked hard for it or it is inherited there could be anger/guilt attached. It's worth thinking about and processing that. Work is kind of a separate issue and probably totally fixable. A separate ASK HN or StackOverflow question might help there get you in the right direction. Get a financial adviser is a good point mentioned below. Also if you are in financial difficulty you should get advice about that too (debt consolidation etc.). Should you hold the coins? I don't know. I've lost a bit of money. Not trivial but not devastating amount. I will probably hold it for a few years. I went in knowing I could lose it though so I thought about "what if this happens" already.

lettergram 9y ago

Write off what you can on your taxes.

deleted 9y ago

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