4 ms·

The idea that people (especially those with criminal backgrounds) can willfully break the law and can enter the country without going through the proper channel

The idea that people (especially those with criminal backgrounds) can willfully break the law and can enter the country without going through the proper channels that millions of others go through to become legal residents each year is sickening.

always_good 9y ago
It's amazing how effective the media has been at painting people who agree with you as racists who hate all central/south americans.
- rvo 9y ago
  Yea. As an Indian it's hard to believe people are propping up illegal immigration. It takes decades for an Indian to legally migrate here. Maybe we should just become illegals. Perhaps then we will get some sympathy from the media and the liberal class.
  - wrsh07 9y ago
    rvo: I want more immigrants, full stop. I want us to invest in identifying high-value immigrants and supporting their naturalization [I think Tyler Cowen argues in favor of many many more creative / non-service space immigrants, ie non-doctors/lawyers, and that seems right to me]. Don't make democrats choose between Latinx and Indian immigrants - we want both. We don't have any power in this country right now. Thus, democrats in Congress are trying to keep provisions that support Latinx immigrants - "Dreamers". From an economic perspective, that makes sense: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-13/-dreamer-migrants-make-u-s-economy-stronger https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-13/-dreamer-... Ideally, we would have better-design systems for immigration, but we don't. We have to be practical and work with what we've got. [and yes, in the distant future if the current form of the Democratic party controls Congress, hopefully it will remember its current desires to help immigrants (and refugees) from all countries]
    - rvo 9y ago
      Why tolerate illegal immigration and make legal immigration so hard? Do you see how out of whack the incentives are? I did a BS and MS from good schools here... Pay tens of thousands in taxes every year due to my high income. But I am in constant worry as I am on a h1b and have a pending green card. In the mean time, I am seeing illegal aliens, hundreds of thousands of them, get EAD cards! I don't even have an EAD. I am enslaved to my company (good thing I like my job!). With EAD you don't even have that issue. Of course I don't have an issue with latin people. I got an issue with illegals being given preference over legals. There are many Indian illegal immigrats too. They overstay visa. I met a cab driver from India who described in detail how he illegally migrated via the Mexico border. Now he has an EAD card somehow. It's so bizzare. Do what Canada does. Use point system. And please remove the racist "national origin" quota for immigration. See the racially allocated dates here: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/visa-bulletin/2018/visa-bulletin-for-february-2018.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v.... They are currently "processing" Indians who applied in 2008!! China is 2013. But Mexicans and everyone else, it's "current" (meaning no waiting). It selectively harm's Indians and Chinese, the most educated immigrants to this country. Literally, there is a special column for Indian, Chinese and Mexicans in the green card line. Make it country agonistic and use points that select for highly educated, English speaking immigrants. Then you can have such great quality of immigrants as Canada. I love this country but it hurts when my friends (all liberal Democrats ) continuously care more about illegals than their friend who has been in this country for 15 years and still in the queue for the greencard ...
      - wrsh07 9y ago
        Yes - agreed on your proposed changes! In general, I think (I hope!) if your friends understood the system, they would be more supportive here, too. Democrats should be united in support of all immigrants and especially removing racist restrictions.
wrsh07 9y ago
Isn't it frequently easier for people to break the law than go through proper channels to accomplish a goal? Eg driving a car without a license, import goods, repair a tractor (shudder, obviously)
- always_good 9y ago
  Since they are replying to a comment that thinks deportation is sickening, I think they are saying that it's sickening that someone to willfully break the law yet be immune to deportation. This is one of the hot topic controversies in the states right now. For example, deportation is now often rebranded as "breaking up families" in the media which now makes you that bad guy to suggest it.
  - wrsh07 9y ago
    Thanks for the response! It seems like one should be able to be against both: breaking up families is crappy and totally not fun. We also don't want people to think breaking the law is the best/only way to support [or be with] their family! But these problems don't have easy solutions. You can feel bad for [deporting] a model citizen who is also in a country illegally while simultaneously wanting to limit the number of people in the country illegally. Unfortunately, all decisions in this space have [sometimes surprising] consequences. One of my most brilliant colleagues will not be staying in the US for very long because he is an only child and wants to be closer to his parents as they age [there is a provision that allows naturalized citizens to obtain green cards for their parents for exactly this purpose, but it is reeeallly slow - and he has no guarantees it won't be shut down before his parents receive green cards]. On these paradoxes and contradictions, I can't help but think of Hamilton: "The Constitution's a mess" [so it needs Amendments] "It's full of contradictions" [so is independence!]
matt4077 9y ago
This guy doesn't have a criminal background, nor did he cross the border illegally.

always_good 9y ago

It's amazing how effective the media has been at painting people who agree with you as racists who hate all central/south americans.

rvo 9y ago
Yea. As an Indian it's hard to believe people are propping up illegal immigration. It takes decades for an Indian to legally migrate here. Maybe we should just become illegals. Perhaps then we will get some sympathy from the media and the liberal class.
- wrsh07 9y ago
  rvo: I want more immigrants, full stop. I want us to invest in identifying high-value immigrants and supporting their naturalization [I think Tyler Cowen argues in favor of many many more creative / non-service space immigrants, ie non-doctors/lawyers, and that seems right to me]. Don't make democrats choose between Latinx and Indian immigrants - we want both. We don't have any power in this country right now. Thus, democrats in Congress are trying to keep provisions that support Latinx immigrants - "Dreamers". From an economic perspective, that makes sense: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-13/-dreamer-migrants-make-u-s-economy-stronger https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-13/-dreamer-... Ideally, we would have better-design systems for immigration, but we don't. We have to be practical and work with what we've got. [and yes, in the distant future if the current form of the Democratic party controls Congress, hopefully it will remember its current desires to help immigrants (and refugees) from all countries]
  - rvo 9y ago
    Why tolerate illegal immigration and make legal immigration so hard? Do you see how out of whack the incentives are? I did a BS and MS from good schools here... Pay tens of thousands in taxes every year due to my high income. But I am in constant worry as I am on a h1b and have a pending green card. In the mean time, I am seeing illegal aliens, hundreds of thousands of them, get EAD cards! I don't even have an EAD. I am enslaved to my company (good thing I like my job!). With EAD you don't even have that issue. Of course I don't have an issue with latin people. I got an issue with illegals being given preference over legals. There are many Indian illegal immigrats too. They overstay visa. I met a cab driver from India who described in detail how he illegally migrated via the Mexico border. Now he has an EAD card somehow. It's so bizzare. Do what Canada does. Use point system. And please remove the racist "national origin" quota for immigration. See the racially allocated dates here: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/visa-bulletin/2018/visa-bulletin-for-february-2018.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v.... They are currently "processing" Indians who applied in 2008!! China is 2013. But Mexicans and everyone else, it's "current" (meaning no waiting). It selectively harm's Indians and Chinese, the most educated immigrants to this country. Literally, there is a special column for Indian, Chinese and Mexicans in the green card line. Make it country agonistic and use points that select for highly educated, English speaking immigrants. Then you can have such great quality of immigrants as Canada. I love this country but it hurts when my friends (all liberal Democrats ) continuously care more about illegals than their friend who has been in this country for 15 years and still in the queue for the greencard ...
    - wrsh07 9y ago
      Yes - agreed on your proposed changes! In general, I think (I hope!) if your friends understood the system, they would be more supportive here, too. Democrats should be united in support of all immigrants and especially removing racist restrictions.

wrsh07 9y ago

Isn't it frequently easier for people to break the law than go through proper channels to accomplish a goal? Eg driving a car without a license, import goods, repair a tractor (shudder, obviously)

always_good 9y ago
Since they are replying to a comment that thinks deportation is sickening, I think they are saying that it's sickening that someone to willfully break the law yet be immune to deportation. This is one of the hot topic controversies in the states right now. For example, deportation is now often rebranded as "breaking up families" in the media which now makes you that bad guy to suggest it.
- wrsh07 9y ago
  Thanks for the response! It seems like one should be able to be against both: breaking up families is crappy and totally not fun. We also don't want people to think breaking the law is the best/only way to support [or be with] their family! But these problems don't have easy solutions. You can feel bad for [deporting] a model citizen who is also in a country illegally while simultaneously wanting to limit the number of people in the country illegally. Unfortunately, all decisions in this space have [sometimes surprising] consequences. One of my most brilliant colleagues will not be staying in the US for very long because he is an only child and wants to be closer to his parents as they age [there is a provision that allows naturalized citizens to obtain green cards for their parents for exactly this purpose, but it is reeeallly slow - and he has no guarantees it won't be shut down before his parents receive green cards]. On these paradoxes and contradictions, I can't help but think of Hamilton: "The Constitution's a mess" [so it needs Amendments] "It's full of contradictions" [so is independence!]

matt4077 9y ago

This guy doesn't have a criminal background, nor did he cross the border illegally.