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>MPs and unions have argued that these strict conditions mean they are bogusly self-employed and should be treated as employed workers. This is why I'm happy G
by carlmr 9y ago
>MPs and unions have argued that these strict conditions mean they are bogusly self-employed and should be treated as employed workers.
This is why I'm happy Germany banned Uber from operating here. I'd love to have more competition in the taxi market (which is ridiculously expensive here). But not at the cost of millions of workers.
We need regulation against Bogus self-employment to be enforced. A person who can only work for one company is not self-employed. At the very least we need gig economy companies to compete for the labor force to ensure that market rates go up.
- aianus 9y agoI drive for Uber part time and I don't feel the self-employed contractor classification to be 'bogus' at all. I use my own equipment, set my own hours, perform tasks with autonomy (I can choose whatever route I or the rider wants) and have no supervision. I can also work for Lyft simultaneously if I want.
- gaius 9y agoYou may be willing to waive your own rights, hard-won on your behalf, but there is an externality. Just as a person who chooses not to vaccinate affects not only themselves but lowers “herd immunity” for everyone.
- Gracana 9y agoLike a union strike-breaker. The group has less bargaining power if there are people who will work anyway.
- tabeth 9y agoCan you set your own prices?
- carlmr 9y agoBingo!
- aianus 9y agoI can ask, but they won't agree to them or send me any rides. Is that so different from, say, an unskilled landscaper asking for $50/h and being passed over for the long line of other landscapers willing to work for $10/h? I don't think the definition of being self-employed or being a contractor includes pricing power.
- tabeth 9y agoHow do you ask or set the price you want to charge in the Uber app?
- drivingmenuts 9y agoA self-employed person can make the argument to their client that they are worth the premium price and it's up to the client to determine whether or not they are. An Uber driver has no such opportunity to interact with the client in that manner.
- manicdee 9y agoIf other Uner drivers are asking $10/h and you are asking $12/h does Uner still send you fares? Are you functionally able to set your rates or is this only a theoretical thing? If you can’t functionally set your rates you aren’t really self-employed.
- aianus 9y agoI can set a limit buy on SPY at $0.01 but it will never be filled. That doesn't mean my limit orders aren't real or that I'm not really a market participant. Likewise I can contact Uber and tell them I want $5/mile and they will say no and then tell me I can continue to accept rides at the bid or stay home. Finally I can work for Juno, or by getting my own insurance and coding my own app, or for Lyft, or a mixture of the above. This is absolutely distinct from any real employment I've ever had.
- tabeth 9y agoI'm not sure if you're being obtuse, but there are no equivalents to a setting a limit buy on SPY with Uber. You keep on saying "ask Uber", but there is no mechanism to actually set a price, which makes the rest of your hypothetical irrelevant. Furthermore, your examples are pretty dumb -- what if you want to work for less to have more rides to make it up in volume? You couldn't do that either. The fact that you cannot set prices means you're not self employed. The fact that you can set your own hours and use an app is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that you cannot dictate your own price using Uber or Lyft. Uber drivers are employees, and Britain agrees [1]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/10/uber-loses-appeal-employment-rights-workers https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/10/uber-lose...
- tscs37 9y agoIn Germany self-employment means you have more than one contractor. If you only ever work for and over Uber, you're simply not self-employed, end of story (the legal description is "Scheinselbstständigkeit").