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Part of that is the upper middle class expectation of owning a house and investing heavily in your child's education. People wait until they are established to

Part of that is the upper middle class expectation of owning a house and investing heavily in your child's education. People wait until they are established to have kids, and higher housing prices push that date back.

dogma1138 9y ago
Speaking for my self, my partner and all our late 20s to mid 30s friends it’s not the money. We rather rent an apartment across the street from Hyde Park have 2-3 big vacations each year and do a weekend in Europe every other weekend or so than have kids. And this is not even that much of a conscious decision kids were just never discussed other than the odd “vasectomy commercial” remark when an air raid siren in a trolley passes by. There is just something different about this generation and it’s not just the socioeconomic issues that some millennial mostly those who were born in the mid-late 90s onwards are having (80s “millennials” are in a pretty good spot IMO). Whether it’s selfishness or infantilism or something less I don’t know but this isn’t about money. Poor people never had problems having kids, heck they never had problems more kids than the average. Educated people also didn’t had a problem having kids my mother was pregnant during Uni with my older brother gave birth and was back after 2 weeks, when she had me she was teaching and basically had birth came back and we’re going home to breast feed me between classes, I don’t know of anyone who would do this today not saying they don’t exist but all my relationships never were with someone that would be willing to sacrifice or work as hard to have a kid as my mother did.
- richardknop 9y ago
  But surely if you live across the street from Hyde park, go on 2-3 big splashy vacations per year and travel to Europe for getaways every couple weeks, you must be in top 1% of earners. And all your friends are likely rich too. So drawing conclusions from that is meaningless as vast majority of millennials are financially struggling to even think about that.
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    Rich is relative salaried “rich” and wealthy are different things today. Rent is high but not much higher than SF about £3000 a month total cost for a 2 bed apartment. This is doable for many professional couples with a decent job in London say £65000 which is £3800 a month after tax (couple combined pre-tax salary of say £130-150,000 or higher, so combined monthly of 7000-8000 or more post tax). Myself, my partner and our friends fall into this category as we earn high 5 figures to low 6 figure salaries and we aren’t wealthy despite of having a pretty good lifestyle. Compared to some guy in middle of nowhereshire that makes £22000 a year if they are lucky we might be considered rich but compared to real money we aren’t any different than the help.
    - richardknop 9y ago
      Hmm. What is the percentage of your net income you pay for rent? I'm asking because across the street from Hyde Park must be an expensive area and I agree that 65k salary in London is nothing to write home about. It's decent but doesn't make you rich. How many bedrooms are you renting? I assume that if you wanted to start a family you would need to move to a cheaper location and adjust your lifestyle?
      - dogma1138 9y ago
        Central london isn’t as expensive as some of the suburbs, £2500-3000 is a pretty nominal rent for the area for a decent sized 2 bed 65-70 sq/m (check the rent for Lancaster Gate which is where I live for example https://www.foxtons.co.uk/living-in/lancaster-gate/ https://www.foxtons.co.uk/living-in/lancaster-gate/) Food and rent and utilities sum to about a 1/3rd of the combined total salary, a big vacation is 1-2 months rent weekend trips in Europe can easily be done on less than £500 heck even under £250 for a city tour flights can be found for <£100 for 2 via low-cost deals of the week, 1-2 nights in a hotel isn’t expensive either so just food since most stuff you visit like museums etc tend to be free or very cheap in Europe.
        bostik 9y ago
- killjoywashere 9y ago
  Are you a bot? What does this even mean?!
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    You are on to me human we will be in touch.
meowfly 9y ago
Elizabeth Warren's Two Income Trap argues that families in order to afford living in the best neighborhoods with the best schools moved to two income families. The result was that this priced out single income families from good neighborhoods with good schools. I believe DINK is less about lifestyle as much as it is about obtaining purchasing power that exceeds dual income families with children. IIRC, the USDA put the cost of your first child at $250k over 18 years and that did not include college. $250,000 is a lot of money towards a home on a 30 year mortgage. I worry that couples who want children will be priced out almost completely by DINKs.

dogma1138 9y ago

Speaking for my self, my partner and all our late 20s to mid 30s friends it’s not the money. We rather rent an apartment across the street from Hyde Park have 2-3 big vacations each year and do a weekend in Europe every other weekend or so than have kids. And this is not even that much of a conscious decision kids were just never discussed other than the odd “vasectomy commercial” remark when an air raid siren in a trolley passes by. There is just something different about this generation and it’s not just the socioeconomic issues that some millennial mostly those who were born in the mid-late 90s onwards are having (80s “millennials” are in a pretty good spot IMO). Whether it’s selfishness or infantilism or something less I don’t know but this isn’t about money. Poor people never had problems having kids, heck they never had problems more kids than the average. Educated people also didn’t had a problem having kids my mother was pregnant during Uni with my older brother gave birth and was back after 2 weeks, when she had me she was teaching and basically had birth came back and we’re going home to breast feed me between classes, I don’t know of anyone who would do this today not saying they don’t exist but all my relationships never were with someone that would be willing to sacrifice or work as hard to have a kid as my mother did.

richardknop 9y ago
But surely if you live across the street from Hyde park, go on 2-3 big splashy vacations per year and travel to Europe for getaways every couple weeks, you must be in top 1% of earners. And all your friends are likely rich too. So drawing conclusions from that is meaningless as vast majority of millennials are financially struggling to even think about that.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  Rich is relative salaried “rich” and wealthy are different things today. Rent is high but not much higher than SF about £3000 a month total cost for a 2 bed apartment. This is doable for many professional couples with a decent job in London say £65000 which is £3800 a month after tax (couple combined pre-tax salary of say £130-150,000 or higher, so combined monthly of 7000-8000 or more post tax). Myself, my partner and our friends fall into this category as we earn high 5 figures to low 6 figure salaries and we aren’t wealthy despite of having a pretty good lifestyle. Compared to some guy in middle of nowhereshire that makes £22000 a year if they are lucky we might be considered rich but compared to real money we aren’t any different than the help.
  - richardknop 9y ago
    Hmm. What is the percentage of your net income you pay for rent? I'm asking because across the street from Hyde Park must be an expensive area and I agree that 65k salary in London is nothing to write home about. It's decent but doesn't make you rich. How many bedrooms are you renting? I assume that if you wanted to start a family you would need to move to a cheaper location and adjust your lifestyle?
    - dogma1138 9y ago
      Central london isn’t as expensive as some of the suburbs, £2500-3000 is a pretty nominal rent for the area for a decent sized 2 bed 65-70 sq/m (check the rent for Lancaster Gate which is where I live for example https://www.foxtons.co.uk/living-in/lancaster-gate/ https://www.foxtons.co.uk/living-in/lancaster-gate/) Food and rent and utilities sum to about a 1/3rd of the combined total salary, a big vacation is 1-2 months rent weekend trips in Europe can easily be done on less than £500 heck even under £250 for a city tour flights can be found for <£100 for 2 via low-cost deals of the week, 1-2 nights in a hotel isn’t expensive either so just food since most stuff you visit like museums etc tend to be free or very cheap in Europe.
      - bostik 9y ago
killjoywashere 9y ago
Are you a bot? What does this even mean?!
- dogma1138 9y ago
  You are on to me human we will be in touch.

meowfly 9y ago

Elizabeth Warren's Two Income Trap argues that families in order to afford living in the best neighborhoods with the best schools moved to two income families. The result was that this priced out single income families from good neighborhoods with good schools. I believe DINK is less about lifestyle as much as it is about obtaining purchasing power that exceeds dual income families with children. IIRC, the USDA put the cost of your first child at $250k over 18 years and that did not include college. $250,000 is a lot of money towards a home on a 30 year mortgage. I worry that couples who want children will be priced out almost completely by DINKs.