3 ms·

I'm not quite as enthusiastic about their choice of funding target. There are plenty of other worthy languages and tools out there that could use that money bet

by sifoo 9y ago

I'm not quite as enthusiastic about their choice of funding target. There are plenty of other worthy languages and tools out there that could use that money better in my mind. It's the C++/Java thing all over again, but stepped up several notches; to the point where it's creeping me out since I can't even mention C online without being attacked by the Rust Brigade; and they just don't give up, it's like one of those shitty zombie movies where you have squirting body fluids and jaws chopping at you from every angle. I don't think they need any more money; more like therapy, chill pills and rooms with soft walls/locked doors for a while.

justinpombrio 9y ago
This funding was for verification work, which was applied to Rust. Rust is a relatively new language, and hasn't been the focus of much research yet. C and C++, in contrast, has already been the subject of tons of research and tooling. For example, Wikipedia lists 28 static analysis tools for C, and none for Rust: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tools_for_static_code_analysis#C,_C++ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tools_for_static_code_... Is there a particular project for a particular language you think is promising and just needs some funding? Or does it just irk you when other people are happy? EDIT: I'm also not sure why you assume that none of this EU funding is going to your language(s) of choice; have you checked?
- ktpsns 9y ago
  From my knowledge, the ERC funds fundamental science. In my personal area (theoretical physics), people tend to move from Fortran to C++ nowadays. As an effect, mostly readability decreases (without linear algebra libraries) or the compiler doesn't help anymore with compile-time bound checks (so people use run-time bound checks with assertions instead). Not even to mention the years of wasted time for people finding bugs in their parallel codes. And all codes with the "HPC" badge are parallel nowadays. I think supporting a modern ecosystem is a good decision if people move away from C++ towards Rust or Julia (another ERC... http://opendreamkit.org/ http://opendreamkit.org/). (Note: Please don't feed the trolls. Nobody has time for language rants)
  - sifoo 9y ago
    How is questioning the choice of project to fund feeding trolls? I was under the impression that diversity was mostly considered a good thing, that has to go for perspectives as well. I just don't get why Rust desperately needs a lot more money than any other tool that's equally useful, they were already pretty well funded by other organizations.
    - Blaisorblade0 9y ago
      This is one research grant on Rust among tons of grants on other projects. And it funds research. When somebody has equally valid research project on C, rest assured it’ll be funded as well, as it has already happened (EDIT) with research on abstract interpretation, separation logic and so on.
- sifoo 9y ago
  Right, question something and you just don't want others to be happy. Good luck with that. Every C compiler and major C library out there to begin with, given that it's the most important and fundamental language in the real world right now. C++ already pulled this trick, it lead nowhere but in circles.
  - master-litty 9y ago
    This is a great place to engage in intellectually stimulating conversations. I, among many others, would love to read your objective thoughts about the fundraising choice. Instead you've decided to facetiously label rustaceans as psychotic and mentally ill because they like sharing an upcoming technology. I don't know what reaction you wanted but it won't be a positive one here.
    - sifoo 9y ago
      Every C compiler and major C library out there to begin with, given that it's the most important and fundamental language in the real world right now. Did you get it this time? Have you been living under a rock lately, or are you just pulling the oldest trick in the psychopath book; condemning others for reacting to abuse? Sharing and attacking others for not agreeing is not the same thing, I hope we agree so far.
      - master-litty 9y ago
        C is fundamental and important now, but are you really not sick of it? Don't you wish we had a language that made it easier and more intuitive to program? Because many of us do. I'm personally rather tired of the boilerplate and legacy issues that come up when writing C -- Seriously, some of them being as simple as writing identical function signatures in multiple files. It works but we live in a time where we can move on. We don't have to be discontent with an old technology. We have the momentum and community to, who knows, maybe even totally replace C one day. People are already making games and servers out of Rust. I think that's huge and definitely worthy of further funding and research of all sorts; People are using this technology whether you like it or not! Did you get it this time? Anyway, I'm sorry to hear you felt abused for having a differing opinion on a forum somewhere. I understand how emotionally compromising it must be to have your opinions challenged! Hopefully people will treat you with great respect in the future and use C forever.

by sifoo 9y ago

justinpombrio 9y ago

This funding was for verification work, which was applied to Rust. Rust is a relatively new language, and hasn't been the focus of much research yet. C and C++, in contrast, has already been the subject of tons of research and tooling. For example, Wikipedia lists 28 static analysis tools for C, and none for Rust: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tools_for_static_code_analysis#C,_C++ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tools_for_static_code_... Is there a particular project for a particular language you think is promising and just needs some funding? Or does it just irk you when other people are happy? EDIT: I'm also not sure why you assume that none of this EU funding is going to your language(s) of choice; have you checked?

ktpsns 9y ago
From my knowledge, the ERC funds fundamental science. In my personal area (theoretical physics), people tend to move from Fortran to C++ nowadays. As an effect, mostly readability decreases (without linear algebra libraries) or the compiler doesn't help anymore with compile-time bound checks (so people use run-time bound checks with assertions instead). Not even to mention the years of wasted time for people finding bugs in their parallel codes. And all codes with the "HPC" badge are parallel nowadays. I think supporting a modern ecosystem is a good decision if people move away from C++ towards Rust or Julia (another ERC... http://opendreamkit.org/ http://opendreamkit.org/). (Note: Please don't feed the trolls. Nobody has time for language rants)
- sifoo 9y ago
  How is questioning the choice of project to fund feeding trolls? I was under the impression that diversity was mostly considered a good thing, that has to go for perspectives as well. I just don't get why Rust desperately needs a lot more money than any other tool that's equally useful, they were already pretty well funded by other organizations.
  - Blaisorblade0 9y ago
    This is one research grant on Rust among tons of grants on other projects. And it funds research. When somebody has equally valid research project on C, rest assured it’ll be funded as well, as it has already happened (EDIT) with research on abstract interpretation, separation logic and so on.
sifoo 9y ago
Right, question something and you just don't want others to be happy. Good luck with that. Every C compiler and major C library out there to begin with, given that it's the most important and fundamental language in the real world right now. C++ already pulled this trick, it lead nowhere but in circles.
- master-litty 9y ago
  This is a great place to engage in intellectually stimulating conversations. I, among many others, would love to read your objective thoughts about the fundraising choice. Instead you've decided to facetiously label rustaceans as psychotic and mentally ill because they like sharing an upcoming technology. I don't know what reaction you wanted but it won't be a positive one here.
  - sifoo 9y ago
    Every C compiler and major C library out there to begin with, given that it's the most important and fundamental language in the real world right now. Did you get it this time? Have you been living under a rock lately, or are you just pulling the oldest trick in the psychopath book; condemning others for reacting to abuse? Sharing and attacking others for not agreeing is not the same thing, I hope we agree so far.
    - master-litty 9y ago
      C is fundamental and important now, but are you really not sick of it? Don't you wish we had a language that made it easier and more intuitive to program? Because many of us do. I'm personally rather tired of the boilerplate and legacy issues that come up when writing C -- Seriously, some of them being as simple as writing identical function signatures in multiple files. It works but we live in a time where we can move on. We don't have to be discontent with an old technology. We have the momentum and community to, who knows, maybe even totally replace C one day. People are already making games and servers out of Rust. I think that's huge and definitely worthy of further funding and research of all sorts; People are using this technology whether you like it or not! Did you get it this time? Anyway, I'm sorry to hear you felt abused for having a differing opinion on a forum somewhere. I understand how emotionally compromising it must be to have your opinions challenged! Hopefully people will treat you with great respect in the future and use C forever.