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Purely from an individual financial perspective this also makes sense. Take the example of the UK: fees are a flat 9k per year. At the end of a 3 year degree yo

by osrec 9y ago

Purely from an individual financial perspective this also makes sense. Take the example of the UK: fees are a flat 9k per year. At the end of a 3 year degree you're at least 30k in debt (usually closer to 50k with living costs). What chance does a drama graduate from an unheard of university have of paying that back comfortably?! Has their degree really added to their ability to earn? Add to that a whopping 6% interest rate on student loans. It's enough to make a young person depressed. A number of my friends now use less that 5% of their degree knowledge and have learnt most of their craft on the job. Maybe we could just skip uni and get straight to learning on the job? It just seems so much more sensible for a lot of careers (CS included).

nothrabannosir 9y ago
I have to say, I use significant parts of my CS BSc all the time. Especially compilers, embedded systems, programming of course, algo complexity, language design, operating systems, graph theory, networking, databases, etc. My thesis was on a functional programming language and involved a deep dive into the compiler (all credit to my amazing professor for his knowledge and patience). My first job straight out was embedded systems engineer; I was asked about I2C buses in the interview (and wouldn’t in a million years have known about them without the embedded sys classes). Having worked on a compiler fundamentally changed how I look at code and how I program. I would never have made it anywhere close to where I am today without it. I can tell you that much.
- osrec 9y ago
  Imagine if your professor worked in the field and you were his apprentice. Could that not have had a similar impact on your life? Perhaps it would have made you even better at applying the knowledge he imparted to you. Perhaps, it would make you additionally capable of teaching and transferring that knowledge to others in a very practical manner.
intopieces 9y ago
Fron a individual financial perspetive, this does not make sense, and the article says so: FTA: "Would I advise an academically well-prepared 18-year-old to skip college because she won’t learn much of value? Absolutely not. Studying irrelevancies for the next four years will impress future employers and raise her income potential. If she tried to leap straight into her first white-collar job, insisting, “I have the right stuff to graduate, I just choose not to,” employers wouldn’t believe her. To unilaterally curtail your education is to relegate yourself to a lower-quality pool of workers. For the individual, college pays."
- osrec 9y ago
  The fact that this is true further emphasises the need to delete this paradigm from society. Studying irrelevancies for 4 of your most capable and potentially productive years is a real waste. (My point originally was a little different - it was that a bunch of people go to uni because "it's the done thing" while saddling themselves with a mountain of debt for a poorly chosen degree, often due to pressure from uni marketing, then not getting a job that can really support them or justify the amount spent on their education)
  - intopieces 9y ago
    >Studying irrelevancies for 4 of your most capable and potentially productive years is a real waste. By what measure are 18-22 your most capable and potentially productive years? The brain doesn't stop maturing until 25-30 [0]. College is a great time for that to happen: a place and time to make mistakes without severe consequences; to explore what interests you, fall in love, try drugs, travel abroad, meet people from outside your comfort zone. Calling these activities a waste because the person is not contributing to some economic output indicator is brutally myopic. In the age of AI and rapid automation of labor, we should be considering more than ever the importance of putting human minds first. This is why college should be free. Let people take the courses they want, drop out, go to a trade school, do whatever. We can afford it. [0]http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24173194 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24173194
    - ThrustVectoring 9y ago
      Please don't make college free, it just forces people to spend even more time in education or else look lazy and unmotivated. It'd turn a Bachelor's into the equivalent of what a high school diploma is today.
    - osrec 9y ago
      Except that college/uni is frought with unnecessary stress and anxiety driven by exams etc. And I'm not saying people should focus on making money from a young age - quite the opposite actually. We should be free to explore whatever we choose. I just feel the college/uni education system is a bit of a con and learning within the confines of that system is expensive and not that advantageous to most. I too believe uni should be free (it used to be here in the UK) - and funnily enough, less people chose to go to uni back then despite it being free! Now that it's super pricey, more people seem to go as more is spent on marketing degrees to the public and it's "just the done thing" in society. Edit: just saw this on the BBC - very relevant to my point: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42923529 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42923529

by osrec 9y ago

nothrabannosir 9y ago

I have to say, I use significant parts of my CS BSc all the time. Especially compilers, embedded systems, programming of course, algo complexity, language design, operating systems, graph theory, networking, databases, etc. My thesis was on a functional programming language and involved a deep dive into the compiler (all credit to my amazing professor for his knowledge and patience). My first job straight out was embedded systems engineer; I was asked about I2C buses in the interview (and wouldn’t in a million years have known about them without the embedded sys classes). Having worked on a compiler fundamentally changed how I look at code and how I program. I would never have made it anywhere close to where I am today without it. I can tell you that much.

osrec 9y ago
Imagine if your professor worked in the field and you were his apprentice. Could that not have had a similar impact on your life? Perhaps it would have made you even better at applying the knowledge he imparted to you. Perhaps, it would make you additionally capable of teaching and transferring that knowledge to others in a very practical manner.

intopieces 9y ago

Fron a individual financial perspetive, this does not make sense, and the article says so: FTA: "Would I advise an academically well-prepared 18-year-old to skip college because she won’t learn much of value? Absolutely not. Studying irrelevancies for the next four years will impress future employers and raise her income potential. If she tried to leap straight into her first white-collar job, insisting, “I have the right stuff to graduate, I just choose not to,” employers wouldn’t believe her. To unilaterally curtail your education is to relegate yourself to a lower-quality pool of workers. For the individual, college pays."

osrec 9y ago
The fact that this is true further emphasises the need to delete this paradigm from society. Studying irrelevancies for 4 of your most capable and potentially productive years is a real waste. (My point originally was a little different - it was that a bunch of people go to uni because "it's the done thing" while saddling themselves with a mountain of debt for a poorly chosen degree, often due to pressure from uni marketing, then not getting a job that can really support them or justify the amount spent on their education)
- intopieces 9y ago
  >Studying irrelevancies for 4 of your most capable and potentially productive years is a real waste. By what measure are 18-22 your most capable and potentially productive years? The brain doesn't stop maturing until 25-30 [0]. College is a great time for that to happen: a place and time to make mistakes without severe consequences; to explore what interests you, fall in love, try drugs, travel abroad, meet people from outside your comfort zone. Calling these activities a waste because the person is not contributing to some economic output indicator is brutally myopic. In the age of AI and rapid automation of labor, we should be considering more than ever the importance of putting human minds first. This is why college should be free. Let people take the courses they want, drop out, go to a trade school, do whatever. We can afford it. [0]http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24173194 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24173194
  - ThrustVectoring 9y ago
    Please don't make college free, it just forces people to spend even more time in education or else look lazy and unmotivated. It'd turn a Bachelor's into the equivalent of what a high school diploma is today.
  - osrec 9y ago
    Except that college/uni is frought with unnecessary stress and anxiety driven by exams etc. And I'm not saying people should focus on making money from a young age - quite the opposite actually. We should be free to explore whatever we choose. I just feel the college/uni education system is a bit of a con and learning within the confines of that system is expensive and not that advantageous to most. I too believe uni should be free (it used to be here in the UK) - and funnily enough, less people chose to go to uni back then despite it being free! Now that it's super pricey, more people seem to go as more is spent on marketing degrees to the public and it's "just the done thing" in society. Edit: just saw this on the BBC - very relevant to my point: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42923529 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42923529