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> The video gets fuzzy and looks suspicious but Mitchell's toadies in the group immediately accept the score, despite refusing to previously accept a VHS tape f

> The video gets fuzzy and looks suspicious but Mitchell's toadies in the group immediately accept the score, despite refusing to previously accept a VHS tape from the contender Steve Wiebe. TwinGalaxies seems fairly shady in general. At least they recently revoked Todd Rogers's completely fake high scores.

ordinaryperson 9y ago
The founder, Walter Day, ran it from 1982-2010 (post King of Kong) when he sold it to focus on his music. It's changed hands a couple of times since the but since 2014 it's been owned by Jace Hall, a video game producer in San Fernando Valley, CA. If you believe Reddit gremlins he's the Worst Person In The World, but I have some sympathy for him, it's tough to adjudicate all of these disputes that can get super technical. Who has the time for it? Even now that Jace is charging for refereeing, it's not a lucrative endeavor. But he had to know what he was getting when he bought it.
- Sniffnoy 9y ago
  Huh, why is it the new owner that people are complaining about? Total outsider, but it seems to me that if anything the place is finally cleaning up a bit.
  - ordinaryperson 9y ago
    One example is the Todd Rogers case (he's briefly featured in The King of Kong). Todd claimed to take a polaroid of a score of 5.51 seconds on Dragster that Activision later "verified" (i.e. acknowledged). Recently several independent gamers running simulation software demonstrated the score was impossible, that 5.57 is the lowest limit achievable. But despite the mounting technical evidence Jace initially refused to take action, saying he'd wait a few months before deciding. Then 5 days later, after Rogers' friend and former TG referee Robert Mruczek (featured in KoK) wrote a long blog post basically saying Rogers was a cheater, Jace stripped Rogers of his scores and banned him from competition. The criticism is that he wasn't fast enough to act on technical evidence but then arbitrarily relies on testimony from one person. But again, I sympathize with the guy. To overturn a 37-year-old record based on what an algorithm says and what Activision itself said in 1981 is tough. If he acted right away that would have p* off others. It's a thankless job, IMHO. But he had to know that when bought it.
Viper007Bond 9y ago
Really interesting video about that: https://youtu.be/8e-H4sEHB54 https://youtu.be/8e-H4sEHB54
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  I came here to post that. It's fascinating. Why would anyone care so much about cheating in an extremely obscure arena?
  - at-fates-hands 9y ago
    For the attention. He for sure took advantage of the situation and knew nobody could verify his claims. It wasn't until recently people have finally shown most of his scores are totally unattainable to begin with, something nobody could really refute until now. It also makes Twin Galaxies look incredibly shady and their refusal to really adjust the high scores just makes it seem like they have some weird stake in it was well.
    - ordinaryperson 9y ago
      Yep. You even see some of that in King of Kong when Walter Day says that Billy Mitchell is good for Twin Galaxies. I'd say it's part naivete (taking friends at their word), part incompetence (not fully vetting scores, especially early on), part complicity (gaming heroes make them seem like a stable of giants). Hard to know what % of each. It's an incredibly narrow band of fame, of attention, by a weird subculture that 99% of humanity pays no attention to, but for some people I guess it's important.
  - rhizome 9y ago
    Tangentially related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_hoaxes_on_Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_hoaxes_on_Wi... is great reading.
  - oceanghost 9y ago
    I've met Billy Mitchell. Everyone has. You pretty much can't go to these events and not meet him. You walk into Twin Galaxies or Arcade Expo and he's standing there in a suit greeting people, selling autographs. That's his JOB. He's a brand. The only advertising for this brand is these stupid records. For Christ's sake, Adam Sandler riffs on him in "Pixels."

ordinaryperson 9y ago

The founder, Walter Day, ran it from 1982-2010 (post King of Kong) when he sold it to focus on his music. It's changed hands a couple of times since the but since 2014 it's been owned by Jace Hall, a video game producer in San Fernando Valley, CA. If you believe Reddit gremlins he's the Worst Person In The World, but I have some sympathy for him, it's tough to adjudicate all of these disputes that can get super technical. Who has the time for it? Even now that Jace is charging for refereeing, it's not a lucrative endeavor. But he had to know what he was getting when he bought it.

Sniffnoy 9y ago
Huh, why is it the new owner that people are complaining about? Total outsider, but it seems to me that if anything the place is finally cleaning up a bit.
- ordinaryperson 9y ago
  One example is the Todd Rogers case (he's briefly featured in The King of Kong). Todd claimed to take a polaroid of a score of 5.51 seconds on Dragster that Activision later "verified" (i.e. acknowledged). Recently several independent gamers running simulation software demonstrated the score was impossible, that 5.57 is the lowest limit achievable. But despite the mounting technical evidence Jace initially refused to take action, saying he'd wait a few months before deciding. Then 5 days later, after Rogers' friend and former TG referee Robert Mruczek (featured in KoK) wrote a long blog post basically saying Rogers was a cheater, Jace stripped Rogers of his scores and banned him from competition. The criticism is that he wasn't fast enough to act on technical evidence but then arbitrarily relies on testimony from one person. But again, I sympathize with the guy. To overturn a 37-year-old record based on what an algorithm says and what Activision itself said in 1981 is tough. If he acted right away that would have p* off others. It's a thankless job, IMHO. But he had to know that when bought it.

Viper007Bond 9y ago

Really interesting video about that: https://youtu.be/8e-H4sEHB54 https://youtu.be/8e-H4sEHB54

sillysaurus3 9y ago
I came here to post that. It's fascinating. Why would anyone care so much about cheating in an extremely obscure arena?
- at-fates-hands 9y ago
  For the attention. He for sure took advantage of the situation and knew nobody could verify his claims. It wasn't until recently people have finally shown most of his scores are totally unattainable to begin with, something nobody could really refute until now. It also makes Twin Galaxies look incredibly shady and their refusal to really adjust the high scores just makes it seem like they have some weird stake in it was well.
  - ordinaryperson 9y ago
    Yep. You even see some of that in King of Kong when Walter Day says that Billy Mitchell is good for Twin Galaxies. I'd say it's part naivete (taking friends at their word), part incompetence (not fully vetting scores, especially early on), part complicity (gaming heroes make them seem like a stable of giants). Hard to know what % of each. It's an incredibly narrow band of fame, of attention, by a weird subculture that 99% of humanity pays no attention to, but for some people I guess it's important.
- rhizome 9y ago
  Tangentially related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_hoaxes_on_Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_hoaxes_on_Wi... is great reading.
- oceanghost 9y ago
  I've met Billy Mitchell. Everyone has. You pretty much can't go to these events and not meet him. You walk into Twin Galaxies or Arcade Expo and he's standing there in a suit greeting people, selling autographs. That's his JOB. He's a brand. The only advertising for this brand is these stupid records. For Christ's sake, Adam Sandler riffs on him in "Pixels."