4 ms·

I wouldn't fault any employee for slacking off, because almost everybody is underpaid, has no real share of ownership, no loyalty... it's an adversarial relatio

I wouldn't fault any employee for slacking off, because almost everybody is underpaid, has no real share of ownership, no loyalty... it's an adversarial relationship of the employers' making.

twblalock 9y ago
> almost everybody is underpaid That doesn't make sense. If someone is underpaid, they make less than most other people who do the same job. If "almost everybody" is making a certain amount, then they aren't underpaid -- they make the market rate.
- thesmallestcat 9y ago
  I'm talking about uneven share of profits. Ownership takes it all. We are paid the minimum possible in most cases.
  - twblalock 9y ago
    The way to share in a company's profits is through stock. Most large companies have employee stock purchase plans and/or give stock as compensation -- not just tech companies. This gives employees a share of profits and makes them partial owners of the company. I'm not sure what more you want.
    - thesmallestcat 9y ago
      Most people aren't getting equity at all. Of those who get equity, it's meaningless. The lion's share of profits go to ownership or shareholders.
      - ryandrake 9y ago
        Your point is a good one. I’ve never worked anywhere where the gains from equity had any kind of significance. From public companies it was indistinguishable from cash since its value never grew significantly and/or went down. From startups they all ended up worth zero. I could see equity being a great motivator if it was less of a lottery. I’m happy to do good work for good compensation and that often includes stock. But I’ve never considered myself “motivated as if an owner” of my employer.
  - burntwater 9y ago
    Ownership also takes all the risks. Profits is the reward for taking risks. All employees can also enjoy profits, by becoming owners of a company, either through stocks or starting their own business.
    - thesmallestcat 9y ago
      This is exactly the attitude I'm talking about. Employees take risks too. Time has its own opportunity cost risk. and it's felt more by employees slaving away at company initiatives than by the ones who dream up those plans. If I've wasted my time as a business owner, I have only myself to blame. As an employee, there's a real risk of wasted time and the accompanying loss of worthwhile pursuits. The other obvious risk is that of unexpectedly losing your job. By and large, employees are not financially independent and are at the mercy of their employers. Ownership has the intel and leverage to plan a graceful fall for themselves. Employees are typically terminated with zero notice, while it's a faux pas for an employee to do the same. Another risk is that an employee will find real conflict with an employer, and stare down the barrel of a well-funded legal team. People have had their lives destroyed by it.

I wouldn't fault any employee for slacking off, because almost everybody is underpaid, has no real share of ownership, no loyalty... it's an adversarial relationship of the employers' making.

twblalock 9y ago

> almost everybody is underpaid That doesn't make sense. If someone is underpaid, they make less than most other people who do the same job. If "almost everybody" is making a certain amount, then they aren't underpaid -- they make the market rate.

thesmallestcat 9y ago
I'm talking about uneven share of profits. Ownership takes it all. We are paid the minimum possible in most cases.
- twblalock 9y ago
  The way to share in a company's profits is through stock. Most large companies have employee stock purchase plans and/or give stock as compensation -- not just tech companies. This gives employees a share of profits and makes them partial owners of the company. I'm not sure what more you want.
  - thesmallestcat 9y ago
    Most people aren't getting equity at all. Of those who get equity, it's meaningless. The lion's share of profits go to ownership or shareholders.
    - ryandrake 9y ago
      Your point is a good one. I’ve never worked anywhere where the gains from equity had any kind of significance. From public companies it was indistinguishable from cash since its value never grew significantly and/or went down. From startups they all ended up worth zero. I could see equity being a great motivator if it was less of a lottery. I’m happy to do good work for good compensation and that often includes stock. But I’ve never considered myself “motivated as if an owner” of my employer.
- burntwater 9y ago
  Ownership also takes all the risks. Profits is the reward for taking risks. All employees can also enjoy profits, by becoming owners of a company, either through stocks or starting their own business.
  - thesmallestcat 9y ago
    This is exactly the attitude I'm talking about. Employees take risks too. Time has its own opportunity cost risk. and it's felt more by employees slaving away at company initiatives than by the ones who dream up those plans. If I've wasted my time as a business owner, I have only myself to blame. As an employee, there's a real risk of wasted time and the accompanying loss of worthwhile pursuits. The other obvious risk is that of unexpectedly losing your job. By and large, employees are not financially independent and are at the mercy of their employers. Ownership has the intel and leverage to plan a graceful fall for themselves. Employees are typically terminated with zero notice, while it's a faux pas for an employee to do the same. Another risk is that an employee will find real conflict with an employer, and stare down the barrel of a well-funded legal team. People have had their lives destroyed by it.