4 ms·

> If it's not a decent payment method, it's not a currency. Before bitcoin, was there any currency that was also a payment method? I would also add that thoug

> If it's not a decent payment method, it's not a currency. Before bitcoin, was there any currency that was also a payment method? I would also add that though it's not great a payment method, it's not to a degree worse than payments in euros for instance. Bank wire transfers take up to three days in Europe. I don't hear anyone stating that this undermines the value of euro as a currency.

notahacker 9y ago
People have only been paying with coins for six or so millenia now... (And of course the reason bank credit has more recently become treated as currency and accepted as electronic payment is because it's exchangeable on demand, at parity to and often instantaneously for legal tender)
- grondilu 9y ago
  When you exchange coins physically, the payment method is ... your hands. > bank credit has more recently become treated as currency A bank credit is not a currency. The thing it is denominated into (EUR, USD, BTC...) is. > And of course the reason bank credit has more recently become treated as currency (sic) and accepted as electronic payment I think the real reason is that people had little to no choice in that regard.
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> was there any currency that was also a payment method? Every currency has, by definition, native payment methods. (If it doesn't, it's a settlement system, not a currency.) Most simply: physical cash. Electronic payment systems are more complicated. In some countries, consumers can directly access them. In others, e.g. the United States, consumers indirectly access the settling-in-seconds and costing-pennies Fedwire system through banks. > Bank wire transfers take up to three days in Europe Maximum settlement time for SEPA transfers has been 1 business day since 2012. [1] https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/sepa_brochure_2009en.pdf?dd4d5270674d22fffae546fc066fea3f https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/sepa_brochure_2009en... footnote on page 20
- grondilu 9y ago
  > Maximum settlement time for SEPA transfers has been 1 business day since 2012. I had not noticed. It's still much longer than 10 minutes, isn't it?
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > It's still much longer than 10 minutes, isn't it? Wrong tool for the task. Ironically, every transaction I’ve done in Europe used U.S. dollars and Fedwires, which close immediately and cost basically nothing. When people go off about petrodollars or whatever, the simple fact of American international payment superiority is often missed. (The ECB has been taking about an always-on instantaneous system for a while [1]. I haven’t kept track of its progress.) [1] https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/retpaym/instant/html/index.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/retpaym/instant/html/index.en...

notahacker 9y ago

People have only been paying with coins for six or so millenia now... (And of course the reason bank credit has more recently become treated as currency and accepted as electronic payment is because it's exchangeable on demand, at parity to and often instantaneously for legal tender)

grondilu 9y ago
When you exchange coins physically, the payment method is ... your hands. > bank credit has more recently become treated as currency A bank credit is not a currency. The thing it is denominated into (EUR, USD, BTC...) is. > And of course the reason bank credit has more recently become treated as currency (sic) and accepted as electronic payment I think the real reason is that people had little to no choice in that regard.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> was there any currency that was also a payment method? Every currency has, by definition, native payment methods. (If it doesn't, it's a settlement system, not a currency.) Most simply: physical cash. Electronic payment systems are more complicated. In some countries, consumers can directly access them. In others, e.g. the United States, consumers indirectly access the settling-in-seconds and costing-pennies Fedwire system through banks. > Bank wire transfers take up to three days in Europe Maximum settlement time for SEPA transfers has been 1 business day since 2012. [1] https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/sepa_brochure_2009en.pdf?dd4d5270674d22fffae546fc066fea3f https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/sepa_brochure_2009en... footnote on page 20

grondilu 9y ago
> Maximum settlement time for SEPA transfers has been 1 business day since 2012. I had not noticed. It's still much longer than 10 minutes, isn't it?
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > It's still much longer than 10 minutes, isn't it? Wrong tool for the task. Ironically, every transaction I’ve done in Europe used U.S. dollars and Fedwires, which close immediately and cost basically nothing. When people go off about petrodollars or whatever, the simple fact of American international payment superiority is often missed. (The ECB has been taking about an always-on instantaneous system for a while [1]. I haven’t kept track of its progress.) [1] https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/retpaym/instant/html/index.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/retpaym/instant/html/index.en...