4 ms·

This happens over and over again in Sweden: skilled worker immigrants get deported over small technicalities, that is often not even their own fault. There have

This happens over and over again in Sweden: skilled worker immigrants get deported over small technicalities, that is often not even their own fault. There have been many examples of this affecting highly skilled engineers in some of Swedens famous (and not famous) tech startups. What I find disturbing is that immigrant criminals, who haven't contributed to society at all, often do not get sentenced to deportation. So we have the situation that people who are a benefit to the Swedish society get deported, but the criminals get to stay.

raverbashing 9y ago
> What I find disturbing is that immigrant criminals, who haven't contributed to society at all, often do not get sentenced to deportation. Correct Most (of the criminals under threat of deportation) just come with some "creative" story about how they are persecuted in their original country (for being extremists, most likely) and how they will face the death penalty there (while they probably killed or have contributed to the death of many)
- antonkm 9y ago
  No, this isn't correct. Please provide some kind of evidence to provide your racist claim. I really despise these kind of claims, especially when connected to political correctness. Sweden does not have a problem with political correctness - only the right wing extremists think so. I rather be politically correct (which actually means polite and respectful) than be able to spew hate against minorities without anyone telling me I'm wrong. The term only acts as a way to distract the opponent arguing against racism, sexism or other despicable ideologies. It's effective and Sweden's version of Trumping it. I agree about the laws being too rigid in regards to working professionals.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - rhapsodic 9y ago
    >Sweden does not have a problem with political correctness - only the right wing extremists think so The Guardian (UK) is hardly an extremist right-wing publication, and it begs to disagree: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/13/sex-assaults-sweden-stockholm-music-festival https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/13/sex-as... (Edit: this getting hammered by downvotes is an example of PC in action.)
    - antonkm 9y ago
      That's an opinion piece and not a piece of actual investigate journalism. I'd say the point still stands: the term political correctness was popularized by the racist Sweden Democrats, and is used as I expressed. It's still mainly the right wing extremists that use it, even though it's more common to see populist far righters use it also.
      - rhapsodic 9y ago
        >That's an opinion piece and not a piece of actual investigate journalism. You're moving the goalposts.
      - ygaf 9y ago
        You popularized it on this page, where no one else mentioned it.
        antonkm 9y ago
        No, I replied to a comment which might have been removed or downvoted from visibility.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - Y_Y 9y ago
    "I rather be politically correct (which actually means polite and respectful" I didn't see your comment as being very respectful of GP, but quite uncharitable and accusatory. I think that there concept of immigration has many complex facets upon which reasonable people may strongly differ, and that it does nobody any good to be branded a "hater" and disregarded, especially when they offer an opinion in good faith.
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    Geeze, I appreciate the point about him needing to provide evidence for his unsubstantiated claim; however I don't appreciate the chance to call him a racist. Identifying racism has become a witch hunt that undermines the importance of criticizing actual racism--if every criticism of people which are from a race other than White is racist, then we need to actually find a new word for racism as its definition has turned in to meaning: politically incorrect criticism of an individual.
    - antonkm 9y ago
      You think the claim that "they", here referring to immigrants (not defining skin color), isn't racist? It's a generalization on a group of people. And it's a negative one.
      - wallace_f 9y ago
        Groups of people do bad things all the time. If that group happens to be a protected class you simply can't criticize them w/o fear of this. What would be racist is if he said "since they are brown, then..." But that isn't what the user said. Not long ago in human history witch hunts swept across Europe and eventually to America. It was no small thing: millions of innocents were either murdered, tortured or imprisoned... And for what? Better to forget this history about humans exhibiting troubling psychology such as this... You might get labelled a witch yourself, or a Jew, or a racist. To be fair, we are progressing a lot at least in the sense that racism is actually a real phenomenon, and an undesirable one, but beyond that the witch hunt psychology is part of the same thread through history.
      - indubitable 9y ago
        Negative generalizations are, at best, tangentially related to racism. Racism is most fundamentally, "I think blue people are better than green people, because they're blue." Speaking negatively, or positively, of blue or green people would not be racist. Refusing to associate with any green person, because they're green, would be racist. Considering a specific blue Nobel prize winning nuclear scientist to be dumb, because blue people have a statistically lower IQ on average, would also be racist. Observing that mentioned IQ difference and considering that it would be expected to result in a lower than average distribution of aforementioned Nobel prize winning nuclear scientists, would not be racist.
  - raverbashing 9y ago
    I don't see why my claim would be racist, it's a common strategy used by people under threat of deportation https://www.thelocal.dk/20150701/convicted-terrorist-loses-danish-citizenship https://www.thelocal.dk/20150701/convicted-terrorist-loses-d...
  - ad_hominem 9y ago
    The unofficial existence of "no-go zones" in immigrant areas, the increase in grenade attacks, including against two police stations in the last few months (Helsingborg and Malmö), the increase in rape the last few years (particularly the recent gang rapes in Malmö) - these are all just racist fever dreams I take it?
- megalodon 9y ago
  Ironically, your comment is a good example of ”creative” storytelling.
- jlebar 9y ago
  Most just come with some "creative" story about how they are persecuted in their original country [...] while they probably killed or have contributed to the death of many Are you really saying that a majority, or even a large fraction, of illegal immigrants to Sweden are murderers or accessories to murder? May I ask: Where did you learn this?
  - raverbashing 9y ago
    > Are you really saying that a majority, or even a large fraction, of illegal immigrants to Sweden are murderers or accessories to murder? Of course not The context was set by the phrase I quoted, which is that of "immigrant criminals" (and I'm not considering that a pleonasm, as some might)
BadassFractal 9y ago
In the US, if you're perfectly productive, legal, highly qualified and well-behaved member of society on H1B from China or India it might still take you 10-15 years to become a resident, so the situation isn't totally rosy here either. And you certainly won't have the right to work on your own idea while you're on that visa, so that's a long time to wait before you can even get started. Probably explains why so many people will try to game the system and claim to belong to the O-1 category.
- qbaqbaqba 9y ago
  O-1 stands for...?
  - BadassFractal 9y ago
    https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-workers/o-1-visa-individuals-extraordinary-ability-or-achievement https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-worker...
matt_wulfeck 9y ago
This is a story playing out in a lot of western countries, especially in Europe.
volgo 9y ago
Unfortunately, it's because highly skilled people are "boring" (definitely don't mean it as an offense) and don't elicit sympathy. They usually do well for themselves so people don't feel sorry enough to help them It's kind of a paradox
Feniks 9y ago
If you are a benefit to society prove it. Pay slips should do it. Easy. Nobody likes mass immigration in Europe because unlike the US everyone is entitled to housing, healthcare, education. That adds up. And we don't have much need for low skill black market jobs.
illuminati1911 9y ago
Same here in Finland. If you are an immigrant outside of EU and you are working legally, but you happen to miss some small details in the labour code of Finnish law, you might get kicked out and there is nothing you can do. The faceless bureaucrats don't give a fuck. However if you are unemployed and wielding knife at a local subway station, you will get both the leftist party and Finnish government to act as your personal bodyguard and you'll never have to leave the country against your own will.

raverbashing 9y ago

> What I find disturbing is that immigrant criminals, who haven't contributed to society at all, often do not get sentenced to deportation. Correct Most (of the criminals under threat of deportation) just come with some "creative" story about how they are persecuted in their original country (for being extremists, most likely) and how they will face the death penalty there (while they probably killed or have contributed to the death of many)

antonkm 9y ago
No, this isn't correct. Please provide some kind of evidence to provide your racist claim. I really despise these kind of claims, especially when connected to political correctness. Sweden does not have a problem with political correctness - only the right wing extremists think so. I rather be politically correct (which actually means polite and respectful) than be able to spew hate against minorities without anyone telling me I'm wrong. The term only acts as a way to distract the opponent arguing against racism, sexism or other despicable ideologies. It's effective and Sweden's version of Trumping it. I agree about the laws being too rigid in regards to working professionals.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- rhapsodic 9y ago
  >Sweden does not have a problem with political correctness - only the right wing extremists think so The Guardian (UK) is hardly an extremist right-wing publication, and it begs to disagree: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/13/sex-assaults-sweden-stockholm-music-festival https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/13/sex-as... (Edit: this getting hammered by downvotes is an example of PC in action.)
  - antonkm 9y ago
    That's an opinion piece and not a piece of actual investigate journalism. I'd say the point still stands: the term political correctness was popularized by the racist Sweden Democrats, and is used as I expressed. It's still mainly the right wing extremists that use it, even though it's more common to see populist far righters use it also.
    - rhapsodic 9y ago
      >That's an opinion piece and not a piece of actual investigate journalism. You're moving the goalposts.
    - ygaf 9y ago
      You popularized it on this page, where no one else mentioned it.
      - antonkm 9y ago
        No, I replied to a comment which might have been removed or downvoted from visibility.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- Y_Y 9y ago
  "I rather be politically correct (which actually means polite and respectful" I didn't see your comment as being very respectful of GP, but quite uncharitable and accusatory. I think that there concept of immigration has many complex facets upon which reasonable people may strongly differ, and that it does nobody any good to be branded a "hater" and disregarded, especially when they offer an opinion in good faith.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  Geeze, I appreciate the point about him needing to provide evidence for his unsubstantiated claim; however I don't appreciate the chance to call him a racist. Identifying racism has become a witch hunt that undermines the importance of criticizing actual racism--if every criticism of people which are from a race other than White is racist, then we need to actually find a new word for racism as its definition has turned in to meaning: politically incorrect criticism of an individual.
  - antonkm 9y ago
    You think the claim that "they", here referring to immigrants (not defining skin color), isn't racist? It's a generalization on a group of people. And it's a negative one.
    - wallace_f 9y ago
      Groups of people do bad things all the time. If that group happens to be a protected class you simply can't criticize them w/o fear of this. What would be racist is if he said "since they are brown, then..." But that isn't what the user said. Not long ago in human history witch hunts swept across Europe and eventually to America. It was no small thing: millions of innocents were either murdered, tortured or imprisoned... And for what? Better to forget this history about humans exhibiting troubling psychology such as this... You might get labelled a witch yourself, or a Jew, or a racist. To be fair, we are progressing a lot at least in the sense that racism is actually a real phenomenon, and an undesirable one, but beyond that the witch hunt psychology is part of the same thread through history.
    - indubitable 9y ago
      Negative generalizations are, at best, tangentially related to racism. Racism is most fundamentally, "I think blue people are better than green people, because they're blue." Speaking negatively, or positively, of blue or green people would not be racist. Refusing to associate with any green person, because they're green, would be racist. Considering a specific blue Nobel prize winning nuclear scientist to be dumb, because blue people have a statistically lower IQ on average, would also be racist. Observing that mentioned IQ difference and considering that it would be expected to result in a lower than average distribution of aforementioned Nobel prize winning nuclear scientists, would not be racist.
- raverbashing 9y ago
  I don't see why my claim would be racist, it's a common strategy used by people under threat of deportation https://www.thelocal.dk/20150701/convicted-terrorist-loses-danish-citizenship https://www.thelocal.dk/20150701/convicted-terrorist-loses-d...
- ad_hominem 9y ago
  The unofficial existence of "no-go zones" in immigrant areas, the increase in grenade attacks, including against two police stations in the last few months (Helsingborg and Malmö), the increase in rape the last few years (particularly the recent gang rapes in Malmö) - these are all just racist fever dreams I take it?
megalodon 9y ago
Ironically, your comment is a good example of ”creative” storytelling.
jlebar 9y ago
Most just come with some "creative" story about how they are persecuted in their original country [...] while they probably killed or have contributed to the death of many Are you really saying that a majority, or even a large fraction, of illegal immigrants to Sweden are murderers or accessories to murder? May I ask: Where did you learn this?
- raverbashing 9y ago
  > Are you really saying that a majority, or even a large fraction, of illegal immigrants to Sweden are murderers or accessories to murder? Of course not The context was set by the phrase I quoted, which is that of "immigrant criminals" (and I'm not considering that a pleonasm, as some might)

BadassFractal 9y ago

In the US, if you're perfectly productive, legal, highly qualified and well-behaved member of society on H1B from China or India it might still take you 10-15 years to become a resident, so the situation isn't totally rosy here either. And you certainly won't have the right to work on your own idea while you're on that visa, so that's a long time to wait before you can even get started. Probably explains why so many people will try to game the system and claim to belong to the O-1 category.

qbaqbaqba 9y ago
O-1 stands for...?
- BadassFractal 9y ago
  https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-workers/o-1-visa-individuals-extraordinary-ability-or-achievement https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-worker...

matt_wulfeck 9y ago

This is a story playing out in a lot of western countries, especially in Europe.

volgo 9y ago

Unfortunately, it's because highly skilled people are "boring" (definitely don't mean it as an offense) and don't elicit sympathy. They usually do well for themselves so people don't feel sorry enough to help them It's kind of a paradox

Feniks 9y ago

If you are a benefit to society prove it. Pay slips should do it. Easy. Nobody likes mass immigration in Europe because unlike the US everyone is entitled to housing, healthcare, education. That adds up. And we don't have much need for low skill black market jobs.

illuminati1911 9y ago

Same here in Finland. If you are an immigrant outside of EU and you are working legally, but you happen to miss some small details in the labour code of Finnish law, you might get kicked out and there is nothing you can do. The faceless bureaucrats don't give a fuck. However if you are unemployed and wielding knife at a local subway station, you will get both the leftist party and Finnish government to act as your personal bodyguard and you'll never have to leave the country against your own will.