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“For most of us, our dreams exceed our limitations, and our ambitions lie far beyond our capabilities“ Not from my experience, no. Most people I know - the vas

“For most of us, our dreams exceed our limitations, and our ambitions lie far beyond our capabilities“ Not from my experience, no. Most people I know - the vast majority - don’t even try chasing the dreams they have. They are not failing because they’re not even in the game. Most of them do not have ambitions beyond those one degree apart from biological sustenance; they just are.

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
There is a difference between not having ambitions and not working towards them. I believe that the latter is the case. Almost everyone wants status, money, and stability, but when someone doesn't believe they are achievable, they won't fight for it.
- flyinglizard 9y ago
  You are of course right, but usually it’s a very weak “want” that doesn’t translate into a process of methodologically driving towards those goals and paying the price they exact.
- tremendulo 9y ago
  True, but those are bad things to want: Status -- those to whom we accord the highest status seem to be people who genuinely don't care about status; Money -- companies which aim only for profit become incapable of change. Presumably something similar applies to individual fat cats; Stability -- societies which aim for stability get wiped out by the next invasion or natural disaster. ...which is perhaps why most people don't work so hard! So what are good things to want?
  - lsc 9y ago
    >Status -- those to whom we accord the highest status seem to be people who genuinely don't care about status; I think you are confusing people who don't care with people who don't seem fearful of losing status. As far as I can see, all "Leaders" are hyperaware of status and spend a lot of time managing their own status and the status of their peers and underlings. As far as I can tell, the further up the chain you go, the more aware you are supposed to be of status, and the more complex the status rituals go, but even at my level (and right now, I'm IT support for an organization of very advanced electrical engineers... so I'm fairly low status, compared to those I work around and compared to other positions I've had) - there are rituals and norms that need to be respected. That said, as far as I can tell, acting fearful (especially acting fearful of losing status) is one of the quickest ways to lose status, so I suppose that could contribute to them looking like they don't care... but from what I've seen, balancing status is a lot of what managers do... maybe most of what they do. And it's a difficult job (and it's super interesting watching someone who used to be technical who get promoted to management try to manage status; they are often a lot more explicit about it than managers who grew up in management, for whom the whole thing looks natural)
    - tremendulo 9y ago
      Totally agree that executives and so on are hyper-vigilant about status. However it's possible to be aware of status without aiming to increase it. Those whom I had in mind are religious leaders like Jesus or the Buddha. They apparently saw no difference between people in their essence. Engineers work with objective reality and so they are humble at least with respect to knowledge. This will be evident from their behaviour in most cases but there will be some who are appear arrogant yet competent. I would conclude that they are humble in private. >That said, as far as I can tell, acting fearful (especially acting fearful of losing status) is one of the quickest ways to lose status Yeah, good point.
      - lsc 9y ago
        >Totally agree that executives and so on are hyper-vigilant about status. However it's possible to be aware of status without aiming to increase it. Those whom I had in mind are religious leaders like Jesus or the Buddha. They apparently saw no difference between people in their essence. I think "leaders" and "prophets" or "people who inspire" are very different animals. Leaders talk about inspiring, but... I really think leadership is about convincing, not about inspiring. >Engineers work with objective reality and so they are humble at least with respect to knowledge. This will be evident from their behaviour in most cases but there will be some who are appear arrogant yet competent. I would conclude that they are humble in private. many of our arguments have testable answers, yes, or to put it another way, our theories are usually more easily testable than those of management, but... status still plays into it, really in similar ways too, I think, management; You gain status as an engineer at least in part by being technically right; you gain status as a manager at least in part by convincing people of things. Do you see the similarity? People who are good at a job generally value other practitioners in how good they are at that job; it's engineering's job to be technically correct; it's management's job to convince people.
smnrchrds 9y ago
That's a misquote, unless the article has been edited since your comment. The correct quote is: "For many of us – most of us who have devoted ourselves to the pursuit of any kind of excellence – our dreams already exceed our limitations; our ambitions lie far beyond our capabilities. So necessarily, most of us are doomed to fail." The author is not talking about all people. She is talking about people who have devoted their lives to perusing their dreams.
- flyinglizard 9y ago
  What you are referring to is buried a third of the way or so into the article. I’m talking about the editorial headline. I expect many more people will stop at that than continue to read through until this quote is given context.
aje403 9y ago
This is so true. Most people's dreams are idling around in their heads for most of their lives. And then another half of those end up failing simply because they won't even put in the required effort or commit that is minimally required to have a chance at success. People who start their own companies and get a solid start should, at the very least, pat themselves on the back, no matter what happens. Then it obviously takes more a lot on top of that to actually make it actually succeed. It is a very tough moment in one's life - in a relation or in a project or any hobby - to admit to yourself - this has f*(#ing fallen apart. What I/we've built is not working. I'm not the best and I've hit my peak at this. I have to wind this down, give up, move on - or if I persist, am I psychotic or will it pay off eventually? What now? How do you want a newspaper article or a wikipedia page about you to read? Or - find a nice career path, go to work, hope you find a nice girl, maybe get a promotion, have a family and a lot of friends. Life!
- Spooky23 9y ago
  It’s an interesting dilemma. I think being successful quickly is important, because the more quickly you achieve what you set out to do, the sooner you have the opportunity to realize that it doesn’t matter. I’ve done well in my niche of the professional world. It isn’t a source of joy. On a given day, i’d prefer to build legos with my son or have him read a little kid book to my wife and I.
  - aje403 9y ago
    My girlfriend met my dad over thanksgiving. He's now in his mid 70s, grew up extremely poor, son of immigrants, but ended up making mid six figures through brains and hard work and raised 4 children very well. A few of his siblings did better than that. She grew up rough and is very street smart. She said to me after "he has this look in his eyes that something is unfinished". I mentioned it to him a week later and somehow he responded "I always wanted to be king". I think your second line is a bit unfair of a statement to make - most people may reach your own conclusion, but that doesn't mean it's "correct". Caesar chose to cross his rubicon instead of bowing out of the game - he simply made that decision.
mcguire 9y ago
I could tell you a story about someone who had dreams and goals and plans. And then he discovered that the world is not a kind place; it puts down immovable barriers against those plans. He has a friend who says, "anything good that happened was because I beat my head against a stone wall until I succeeded;" not this guy---anything good that happens seems basically pure luck, head banging or no head banging. He discovered that those goals he did work for and achieve suddenly tasted like sand. And then one day he realized that the reason he would never achieve any of those great dreams was because the will to work for them had been beaten out. Yeah, I could tell you a story. But I won't.
- AndrewKemendo 9y ago
  I'd be interested in that story.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  I think I can tell a similar story
- ahussain 9y ago
  Are there any writers who dive into this a subject area?
FLUX-YOU 9y ago
They probably can't afford the risks of a major commitment. And a major commitment may be required to succeed. Some things you can't pursue part-time or self-taught, and there may also be a critical time window to start if you want to succeed. This is smart, because pursing some dreams could ruin you financially if it ultimately doesn't result in a paycheck. Your starting place in life has a big influence on how far your efforts will get you. So I'm glad they don't recklessly try, because trying to accomplish a dream and failing doesn't keep you fed or warm or dry.
- killjoywashere 9y ago
  > pursing some dreams could ruin you A key element in this conundrum is to dream well. When I was on General Allen's staff, he encouraged us to "Cultivate a 5000 year old mind. You're all leaders. Your proven leadership is why you were selected to be on my staff. Now your job is to understand your place in history. I need you to understand that because when critical moments arrive, you must recognize them, and act decisively, rightly, without further guidance."

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago

There is a difference between not having ambitions and not working towards them. I believe that the latter is the case. Almost everyone wants status, money, and stability, but when someone doesn't believe they are achievable, they won't fight for it.

flyinglizard 9y ago
You are of course right, but usually it’s a very weak “want” that doesn’t translate into a process of methodologically driving towards those goals and paying the price they exact.
tremendulo 9y ago
True, but those are bad things to want: Status -- those to whom we accord the highest status seem to be people who genuinely don't care about status; Money -- companies which aim only for profit become incapable of change. Presumably something similar applies to individual fat cats; Stability -- societies which aim for stability get wiped out by the next invasion or natural disaster. ...which is perhaps why most people don't work so hard! So what are good things to want?
- lsc 9y ago
  >Status -- those to whom we accord the highest status seem to be people who genuinely don't care about status; I think you are confusing people who don't care with people who don't seem fearful of losing status. As far as I can see, all "Leaders" are hyperaware of status and spend a lot of time managing their own status and the status of their peers and underlings. As far as I can tell, the further up the chain you go, the more aware you are supposed to be of status, and the more complex the status rituals go, but even at my level (and right now, I'm IT support for an organization of very advanced electrical engineers... so I'm fairly low status, compared to those I work around and compared to other positions I've had) - there are rituals and norms that need to be respected. That said, as far as I can tell, acting fearful (especially acting fearful of losing status) is one of the quickest ways to lose status, so I suppose that could contribute to them looking like they don't care... but from what I've seen, balancing status is a lot of what managers do... maybe most of what they do. And it's a difficult job (and it's super interesting watching someone who used to be technical who get promoted to management try to manage status; they are often a lot more explicit about it than managers who grew up in management, for whom the whole thing looks natural)
  - tremendulo 9y ago
    Totally agree that executives and so on are hyper-vigilant about status. However it's possible to be aware of status without aiming to increase it. Those whom I had in mind are religious leaders like Jesus or the Buddha. They apparently saw no difference between people in their essence. Engineers work with objective reality and so they are humble at least with respect to knowledge. This will be evident from their behaviour in most cases but there will be some who are appear arrogant yet competent. I would conclude that they are humble in private. >That said, as far as I can tell, acting fearful (especially acting fearful of losing status) is one of the quickest ways to lose status Yeah, good point.
    - lsc 9y ago
      >Totally agree that executives and so on are hyper-vigilant about status. However it's possible to be aware of status without aiming to increase it. Those whom I had in mind are religious leaders like Jesus or the Buddha. They apparently saw no difference between people in their essence. I think "leaders" and "prophets" or "people who inspire" are very different animals. Leaders talk about inspiring, but... I really think leadership is about convincing, not about inspiring. >Engineers work with objective reality and so they are humble at least with respect to knowledge. This will be evident from their behaviour in most cases but there will be some who are appear arrogant yet competent. I would conclude that they are humble in private. many of our arguments have testable answers, yes, or to put it another way, our theories are usually more easily testable than those of management, but... status still plays into it, really in similar ways too, I think, management; You gain status as an engineer at least in part by being technically right; you gain status as a manager at least in part by convincing people of things. Do you see the similarity? People who are good at a job generally value other practitioners in how good they are at that job; it's engineering's job to be technically correct; it's management's job to convince people.

smnrchrds 9y ago

That's a misquote, unless the article has been edited since your comment. The correct quote is: "For many of us – most of us who have devoted ourselves to the pursuit of any kind of excellence – our dreams already exceed our limitations; our ambitions lie far beyond our capabilities. So necessarily, most of us are doomed to fail." The author is not talking about all people. She is talking about people who have devoted their lives to perusing their dreams.

flyinglizard 9y ago
What you are referring to is buried a third of the way or so into the article. I’m talking about the editorial headline. I expect many more people will stop at that than continue to read through until this quote is given context.

aje403 9y ago

This is so true. Most people's dreams are idling around in their heads for most of their lives. And then another half of those end up failing simply because they won't even put in the required effort or commit that is minimally required to have a chance at success. People who start their own companies and get a solid start should, at the very least, pat themselves on the back, no matter what happens. Then it obviously takes more a lot on top of that to actually make it actually succeed. It is a very tough moment in one's life - in a relation or in a project or any hobby - to admit to yourself - this has f*(#ing fallen apart. What I/we've built is not working. I'm not the best and I've hit my peak at this. I have to wind this down, give up, move on - or if I persist, am I psychotic or will it pay off eventually? What now? How do you want a newspaper article or a wikipedia page about you to read? Or - find a nice career path, go to work, hope you find a nice girl, maybe get a promotion, have a family and a lot of friends. Life!

Spooky23 9y ago
It’s an interesting dilemma. I think being successful quickly is important, because the more quickly you achieve what you set out to do, the sooner you have the opportunity to realize that it doesn’t matter. I’ve done well in my niche of the professional world. It isn’t a source of joy. On a given day, i’d prefer to build legos with my son or have him read a little kid book to my wife and I.
- aje403 9y ago
  My girlfriend met my dad over thanksgiving. He's now in his mid 70s, grew up extremely poor, son of immigrants, but ended up making mid six figures through brains and hard work and raised 4 children very well. A few of his siblings did better than that. She grew up rough and is very street smart. She said to me after "he has this look in his eyes that something is unfinished". I mentioned it to him a week later and somehow he responded "I always wanted to be king". I think your second line is a bit unfair of a statement to make - most people may reach your own conclusion, but that doesn't mean it's "correct". Caesar chose to cross his rubicon instead of bowing out of the game - he simply made that decision.

mcguire 9y ago

I could tell you a story about someone who had dreams and goals and plans. And then he discovered that the world is not a kind place; it puts down immovable barriers against those plans. He has a friend who says, "anything good that happened was because I beat my head against a stone wall until I succeeded;" not this guy---anything good that happens seems basically pure luck, head banging or no head banging. He discovered that those goals he did work for and achieve suddenly tasted like sand. And then one day he realized that the reason he would never achieve any of those great dreams was because the will to work for them had been beaten out. Yeah, I could tell you a story. But I won't.

AndrewKemendo 9y ago
I'd be interested in that story.
maxxxxx 9y ago
I think I can tell a similar story
ahussain 9y ago
Are there any writers who dive into this a subject area?

FLUX-YOU 9y ago

They probably can't afford the risks of a major commitment. And a major commitment may be required to succeed. Some things you can't pursue part-time or self-taught, and there may also be a critical time window to start if you want to succeed. This is smart, because pursing some dreams could ruin you financially if it ultimately doesn't result in a paycheck. Your starting place in life has a big influence on how far your efforts will get you. So I'm glad they don't recklessly try, because trying to accomplish a dream and failing doesn't keep you fed or warm or dry.

killjoywashere 9y ago
> pursing some dreams could ruin you A key element in this conundrum is to dream well. When I was on General Allen's staff, he encouraged us to "Cultivate a 5000 year old mind. You're all leaders. Your proven leadership is why you were selected to be on my staff. Now your job is to understand your place in history. I need you to understand that because when critical moments arrive, you must recognize them, and act decisively, rightly, without further guidance."