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There is a HUMONGOUS difference between owner of a business and employed by a business. Makes sense for the "10th richest person in the world" to work long hou

by ulfw 9y ago

There is a HUMONGOUS difference between owner of a business and employed by a business. Makes sense for the "10th richest person in the world" to work long hours. It's his call. He is working basically for himself. Totally different when you're making say 50K and the "10th richest person in the world" wants YOU to work all day every day too.

bluedino 9y ago
There's nothing wrong with being passionate about your job
- sidlls 9y ago
  Wanting to work all the time and being passionate aren't the same thing.
  - gaius 9y ago
    True, but that’s what people mean in an interview when they ask if you are passionate about I dunno, doing payrolls in COBOL or something
- koonsolo 9y ago
  In a sense not, but it does make it easier to exploit you. Just look at the game dev industry. Lots of passionate people there, and lots of companies who will exploit that. In the end, those people lose their passion. Being passionate about work can make you very happy. But always make sure you don't get exploited because of it. You will need to set your limits.
- Trundle 9y ago
  Inherently? No, but it does come with potential for negative externalities. If you consider that work passion to be a moral virtue and this comes through in your discussions with others, that contributes to pushing society towards a culture of being overworked. If you try to overtly filter for passion within hiring at a company then that encourages bullshitting and reduces the efficiency of managing employees. You'll be trying to give "passion" benefits to a bunch of secret mercenaries. If you're non-business inclined and passionate then this can lead to capturing far less of the value that you generate than you otherwise could. This is effectively charity to the business owning class. If you're working for $80k when a few extra conversations—or even just sentences—over the years could have put you at $150k, then that's effectively a yearly donation of $70k to the people in the world who need it the least. Even if you don't care for that money for yourself because you're too busy having fun working to spend it, then that's an awful lot of good you could have done for others that you're failing to do. What's more with this one is that it also hurts your colleagues by acting as a salary anchor which again, results in a greater share of the value being generated going to the owning class.
jondubois 9y ago
This hits the nail on the head. Most of the value that you're creating is captured by someone else. So why should you be expected to spend all your life to benefit someone else's interests? It's quite strange that today slavery is a completely taboo subject (rightfully so) and yet workplace slavery is not only tolerated but encouraged. It's essentailly the same; someone else uses their coercive power over you to essentially steal a big chunk of your life. The worst part is that it's a first-in best-dressed, roll-of-the-dice kind of game.
- zaptheimpaler 9y ago
  Speaking as an outsider to Western/American culture, this is one of the worst parts of America. There are millions of people peddling the bullshit dream of "success" (whatever that means) and the implied message of "work harder" in every corner of the media and workplace. Which is great if you reap 100% of the rewards, but for most its only a way to make them compliant worker-bees competing with each other for scraps that the higher-ups dose out at their leisure.
  - closeparen 9y ago
    Unless we’re in some kind of rent-seeking or monopolistic situation, you never get 100% of the rewards. Businesses increase their revenues by providing more value to clients.
- joaomacp 9y ago
  It's not slavery, because you're not forced to do it. You signed a contract agreeing to those conditions.
- mdekkers 9y ago
  Most of the value that you're creating is captured by someone else. So why should you be expected to spend all your life to benefit someone else's interests? Exactly. And they push you hard to squeeze just a little bit more out of you, every day. I am currently working a contract. They offered me a full-time post, to move to one of the move expensive cities on the planet, and make half of what I do now. Naturally, I questioned the defunct logic in this particular offer, and the come back was "but you will be full-time". Suffice to say, the negotiations, such as they were, rapidly went downhill from there. My client is pretty pissed with me for not wanting to work for half of what they are paying me now. Whatever. My next contract is on the horizon, I have several lucrative offers on the table, and I am pretty sure my current client will be surprised when I hand in my notice. Somehow, clients are taken aback when I discuss remuneration in terms of receiving a fair share of the value I create. They point at their ability to snare others for a minimum as evidence that I am not playing the game correctly.
dang 9y ago
It isn't binary. I like my work, work long hours, don't own the company, and am treated well. I'm lucky, of course. But not every such situation is exploitative. I watched a talk recently where Ivan Sutherland approvingly quotes Fred Brooks as saying "I don't plan to retire, I plan not to retire." p.s. Please don't use allcaps for empahsis on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Do you feel that because you're contributing to the health and wellbeing of a community (as HN's community steward), that provides you with purpose above and beyond the usual monetary compensation? I think people who work 40+ hours are supportive of doing so when they're contributing to something they believe in, or they enjoy it beyond compensation.
  - dang 9y ago
    I think so, yes. Also, we have creative control over what we do and that makes the work much more satisfying. The GP does have a point about how rare this is. It's just not a point that pertains to the original question.
montrose 9y ago
The difference is the type of work you do and how you feel about it, not whether you're employer or employee. There are businesses it's a grim schlep to run, and jobs that are very interesting.
drukenemo 9y ago
Perfectly agreed.

by ulfw 9y ago

bluedino 9y ago

There's nothing wrong with being passionate about your job

sidlls 9y ago
Wanting to work all the time and being passionate aren't the same thing.
- gaius 9y ago
  True, but that’s what people mean in an interview when they ask if you are passionate about I dunno, doing payrolls in COBOL or something
koonsolo 9y ago
In a sense not, but it does make it easier to exploit you. Just look at the game dev industry. Lots of passionate people there, and lots of companies who will exploit that. In the end, those people lose their passion. Being passionate about work can make you very happy. But always make sure you don't get exploited because of it. You will need to set your limits.
Trundle 9y ago
Inherently? No, but it does come with potential for negative externalities. If you consider that work passion to be a moral virtue and this comes through in your discussions with others, that contributes to pushing society towards a culture of being overworked. If you try to overtly filter for passion within hiring at a company then that encourages bullshitting and reduces the efficiency of managing employees. You'll be trying to give "passion" benefits to a bunch of secret mercenaries. If you're non-business inclined and passionate then this can lead to capturing far less of the value that you generate than you otherwise could. This is effectively charity to the business owning class. If you're working for $80k when a few extra conversations—or even just sentences—over the years could have put you at $150k, then that's effectively a yearly donation of $70k to the people in the world who need it the least. Even if you don't care for that money for yourself because you're too busy having fun working to spend it, then that's an awful lot of good you could have done for others that you're failing to do. What's more with this one is that it also hurts your colleagues by acting as a salary anchor which again, results in a greater share of the value being generated going to the owning class.

jondubois 9y ago

This hits the nail on the head. Most of the value that you're creating is captured by someone else. So why should you be expected to spend all your life to benefit someone else's interests? It's quite strange that today slavery is a completely taboo subject (rightfully so) and yet workplace slavery is not only tolerated but encouraged. It's essentailly the same; someone else uses their coercive power over you to essentially steal a big chunk of your life. The worst part is that it's a first-in best-dressed, roll-of-the-dice kind of game.

zaptheimpaler 9y ago
Speaking as an outsider to Western/American culture, this is one of the worst parts of America. There are millions of people peddling the bullshit dream of "success" (whatever that means) and the implied message of "work harder" in every corner of the media and workplace. Which is great if you reap 100% of the rewards, but for most its only a way to make them compliant worker-bees competing with each other for scraps that the higher-ups dose out at their leisure.
- closeparen 9y ago
  Unless we’re in some kind of rent-seeking or monopolistic situation, you never get 100% of the rewards. Businesses increase their revenues by providing more value to clients.
joaomacp 9y ago
It's not slavery, because you're not forced to do it. You signed a contract agreeing to those conditions.
mdekkers 9y ago
Most of the value that you're creating is captured by someone else. So why should you be expected to spend all your life to benefit someone else's interests? Exactly. And they push you hard to squeeze just a little bit more out of you, every day. I am currently working a contract. They offered me a full-time post, to move to one of the move expensive cities on the planet, and make half of what I do now. Naturally, I questioned the defunct logic in this particular offer, and the come back was "but you will be full-time". Suffice to say, the negotiations, such as they were, rapidly went downhill from there. My client is pretty pissed with me for not wanting to work for half of what they are paying me now. Whatever. My next contract is on the horizon, I have several lucrative offers on the table, and I am pretty sure my current client will be surprised when I hand in my notice. Somehow, clients are taken aback when I discuss remuneration in terms of receiving a fair share of the value I create. They point at their ability to snare others for a minimum as evidence that I am not playing the game correctly.

dang 9y ago

It isn't binary. I like my work, work long hours, don't own the company, and am treated well. I'm lucky, of course. But not every such situation is exploitative. I watched a talk recently where Ivan Sutherland approvingly quotes Fred Brooks as saying "I don't plan to retire, I plan not to retire." p.s. Please don't use allcaps for empahsis on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
toomuchtodo 9y ago
Do you feel that because you're contributing to the health and wellbeing of a community (as HN's community steward), that provides you with purpose above and beyond the usual monetary compensation? I think people who work 40+ hours are supportive of doing so when they're contributing to something they believe in, or they enjoy it beyond compensation.
- dang 9y ago
  I think so, yes. Also, we have creative control over what we do and that makes the work much more satisfying. The GP does have a point about how rare this is. It's just not a point that pertains to the original question.

montrose 9y ago

The difference is the type of work you do and how you feel about it, not whether you're employer or employee. There are businesses it's a grim schlep to run, and jobs that are very interesting.

drukenemo 9y ago

Perfectly agreed.