6 ms·

Exactly. My father told me a story of when he was stuck in traffic with somebody who was then about the 10th richest person in the world. To make conversation,

Exactly. My father told me a story of when he was stuck in traffic with somebody who was then about the 10th richest person in the world. To make conversation, my father asked him what his plans for the coming year were. The guy listed all sorts of business goals. My father asked if he had anything personally that he was planning. The guy basically replied that those were his personal plans. He made no distinction between work and play.

irundebian 9y ago
That's sad.
- vixen99 9y ago
  That's patronizing. How about 'I would find that sad if I was in his position'.
  - closed 9y ago
    When I see you use "That's patronizing", I feel conflicted because it seems to be in the same evaluative style as "That's sad". I am not sure if it's constructive to use a style being criticized against a person. (this is me practicing nonviolent communication or something :)
    - irundebian 9y ago
      The solution is not to feel offended when you're being criticized. As long it doesn't get abusive.
      - closed 9y ago
        That's fair--it sounds like you're saying a person receiving criticism should be resilient to that criticism to some extent. I'm interested in hearing what you think the solution (if any) is for the person giving the criticism. (to be clear, I don't feel offended by the parent comment)
- javajosh 9y ago
  I don't believe in overwork, nor do I believe it is sad. There's a big difference working 70-hour weeks achieving the goals you've set for yourself, and working that much to avoid getting fired.
- deadbeef404 9y ago
  Why?
  - sgt101 9y ago
    Because there are vast range of experiences beyond the world of work which can fill and enrich a human life. To be not engaged in the rest of the world is to live a half life. No one died regretting time no spent at work or money unmade
    - thenomad 9y ago
      "No one died regretting time no spent at work" Citation needed. Here's one example of a situation where I could very easily see someone regretting not spending more time at work. As a professional creative, I'm betting there are a fair number of authors, film directors, screenwriters and so on who died regretting they didn't finish their latest work, or didn't spend more time on the thing they really wanted to make. That's work.
- dang 9y ago
  Could you please not post unsubstantive comments here?
  - irundebian 9y ago
    It's not unsubstantive in my opinion. It's just an expression of my opinion, which is questioning the thought of making no difference of personal and business goals combined with an emotional component (sadness).
    - dang 9y ago
      This reply is already more substantive than a mere "That's sad", which may or may not have any thought behind it. If you fleshed it out a bit more into a thoughtful point, you'd have a good HN comment. Merely stating an opinion doesn't count as substantive. There needs to be something to interest the reader.
      - irundebian 9y ago
        You're right. I'm sorry.
ulfw 9y ago
There is a HUMONGOUS difference between owner of a business and employed by a business. Makes sense for the "10th richest person in the world" to work long hours. It's his call. He is working basically for himself. Totally different when you're making say 50K and the "10th richest person in the world" wants YOU to work all day every day too.
- bluedino 9y ago
  There's nothing wrong with being passionate about your job
  - sidlls 9y ago
    Wanting to work all the time and being passionate aren't the same thing.
    - gaius 9y ago
      True, but that’s what people mean in an interview when they ask if you are passionate about I dunno, doing payrolls in COBOL or something
  - koonsolo 9y ago
    In a sense not, but it does make it easier to exploit you. Just look at the game dev industry. Lots of passionate people there, and lots of companies who will exploit that. In the end, those people lose their passion. Being passionate about work can make you very happy. But always make sure you don't get exploited because of it. You will need to set your limits.
  - Trundle 9y ago
    Inherently? No, but it does come with potential for negative externalities. If you consider that work passion to be a moral virtue and this comes through in your discussions with others, that contributes to pushing society towards a culture of being overworked. If you try to overtly filter for passion within hiring at a company then that encourages bullshitting and reduces the efficiency of managing employees. You'll be trying to give "passion" benefits to a bunch of secret mercenaries. If you're non-business inclined and passionate then this can lead to capturing far less of the value that you generate than you otherwise could. This is effectively charity to the business owning class. If you're working for $80k when a few extra conversations—or even just sentences—over the years could have put you at $150k, then that's effectively a yearly donation of $70k to the people in the world who need it the least. Even if you don't care for that money for yourself because you're too busy having fun working to spend it, then that's an awful lot of good you could have done for others that you're failing to do. What's more with this one is that it also hurts your colleagues by acting as a salary anchor which again, results in a greater share of the value being generated going to the owning class.

irundebian 9y ago

That's sad.

vixen99 9y ago
That's patronizing. How about 'I would find that sad if I was in his position'.
- closed 9y ago
  When I see you use "That's patronizing", I feel conflicted because it seems to be in the same evaluative style as "That's sad". I am not sure if it's constructive to use a style being criticized against a person. (this is me practicing nonviolent communication or something :)
  - irundebian 9y ago
    The solution is not to feel offended when you're being criticized. As long it doesn't get abusive.
    - closed 9y ago
      That's fair--it sounds like you're saying a person receiving criticism should be resilient to that criticism to some extent. I'm interested in hearing what you think the solution (if any) is for the person giving the criticism. (to be clear, I don't feel offended by the parent comment)
javajosh 9y ago
I don't believe in overwork, nor do I believe it is sad. There's a big difference working 70-hour weeks achieving the goals you've set for yourself, and working that much to avoid getting fired.
deadbeef404 9y ago
Why?
- sgt101 9y ago
  Because there are vast range of experiences beyond the world of work which can fill and enrich a human life. To be not engaged in the rest of the world is to live a half life. No one died regretting time no spent at work or money unmade
  - thenomad 9y ago
    "No one died regretting time no spent at work" Citation needed. Here's one example of a situation where I could very easily see someone regretting not spending more time at work. As a professional creative, I'm betting there are a fair number of authors, film directors, screenwriters and so on who died regretting they didn't finish their latest work, or didn't spend more time on the thing they really wanted to make. That's work.
dang 9y ago
Could you please not post unsubstantive comments here?
- irundebian 9y ago
  It's not unsubstantive in my opinion. It's just an expression of my opinion, which is questioning the thought of making no difference of personal and business goals combined with an emotional component (sadness).
  - dang 9y ago
    This reply is already more substantive than a mere "That's sad", which may or may not have any thought behind it. If you fleshed it out a bit more into a thoughtful point, you'd have a good HN comment. Merely stating an opinion doesn't count as substantive. There needs to be something to interest the reader.
    - irundebian 9y ago
      You're right. I'm sorry.

ulfw 9y ago

There is a HUMONGOUS difference between owner of a business and employed by a business. Makes sense for the "10th richest person in the world" to work long hours. It's his call. He is working basically for himself. Totally different when you're making say 50K and the "10th richest person in the world" wants YOU to work all day every day too.

bluedino 9y ago
There's nothing wrong with being passionate about your job
- sidlls 9y ago
  Wanting to work all the time and being passionate aren't the same thing.
  - gaius 9y ago
    True, but that’s what people mean in an interview when they ask if you are passionate about I dunno, doing payrolls in COBOL or something
- koonsolo 9y ago
  In a sense not, but it does make it easier to exploit you. Just look at the game dev industry. Lots of passionate people there, and lots of companies who will exploit that. In the end, those people lose their passion. Being passionate about work can make you very happy. But always make sure you don't get exploited because of it. You will need to set your limits.
- Trundle 9y ago
  Inherently? No, but it does come with potential for negative externalities. If you consider that work passion to be a moral virtue and this comes through in your discussions with others, that contributes to pushing society towards a culture of being overworked. If you try to overtly filter for passion within hiring at a company then that encourages bullshitting and reduces the efficiency of managing employees. You'll be trying to give "passion" benefits to a bunch of secret mercenaries. If you're non-business inclined and passionate then this can lead to capturing far less of the value that you generate than you otherwise could. This is effectively charity to the business owning class. If you're working for $80k when a few extra conversations—or even just sentences—over the years could have put you at $150k, then that's effectively a yearly donation of $70k to the people in the world who need it the least. Even if you don't care for that money for yourself because you're too busy having fun working to spend it, then that's an awful lot of good you could have done for others that you're failing to do. What's more with this one is that it also hurts your colleagues by acting as a salary anchor which again, results in a greater share of the value being generated going to the owning class.