4 ms·

Living in Japan, I'm not sure I would say that the slower speeds make things safer (can't say one way or another). However, it definitely changes the way you t

Living in Japan, I'm not sure I would say that the slower speeds make things safer (can't say one way or another). However, it definitely changes the way you think about geography. I spent about 12 years of my adult life living in Ottawa Canada and about 8 years living in Japan (with the balance being in the UK). In Ottawa, I would not think twice about driving 20-30 km to hang out with my friend after work. When all is said and done, it's under an hour of driving for a round trip. But in Japan, 30 km away might as well be on the other side of the moon for me most days. From where I live, the nearest "big" city (of 700K people) is 25 km. To drive there would take over an hour each way. The bus fare is over $20 US, round trip (and takes 3 hours round trip). I stay in my town. I walk to the izakaya (neighbourhood pub). I walk to the super market. I walk to the hardware store. I walk everywhere -- anything I would want to go to is less than 2 km away. Not everybody lives the way I do, but enough people do that each town has it's own flavour. It has it's own special foods and shops. I can ride my bike 5 km to the next town over and it's different than the town I live in. I can go another 5 km and that town is also different. Compared to Canada, it's night an day. In Canada, it would take me 5 km just to get out of my housing subdivision. Walking to the grocery store is a crazy thought unless you just happened to live next to a grocery story. Don't get me wrong -- Ottawa is a great place, but you really need to live in the older areas to get much flavour. The rest is cookie cutter subdivisions, interspersed with malls. Having said that, I'm not sure if it's reasonable to expect to transplant a non-car culture into NA. The vast majority of my friends in Canada dream of owning a home with enough land that they never have to see their neighbours. They don't wan't a neighbourhood where they walk everywhere. They want a kind of island and they really don't mind driving from island to island. It's not for me, but I can definitely understand the appeal.

mantas 9y ago
> They don't wan't a neighbourhood where they walk everywhere. They want a kind of island and they really don't mind driving from island to island. It's not for me, but I can definitely understand the appeal. That's interesting. Sometimes it feels like "modern city" advocates are super extrovert narcissists who want everyone to live in crammed spaces with many people around. And then optimise for that. They're willing to sacrifice space for their needs Yet many people legitimately want to live sparsely and are willing to sacrifice other things for space.
- mikekchar 9y ago
  That might be a kind of extreme position, but I think you're right that they would be looking for slightly higher population densities in general. In Japan it's kind of forced on people because the country is so mountainous. You only have so much flat space to work with and you have to balance the needs of living, farming and manufacturing. People who want to live all by themselves can move up into the mountains where you are basically surrounded by nature. For me, I live in a small town. There are about 20K people in this area, although the official city is quite a bit bigger (it encompasses 3 towns and the intervening mountains for efficient administration purposes). I live in an apartment building, but that building is literally in the middle of a rice field. The whole town is a mix of farms, tea fields, manufacturing plants (including some very famous ones, even though we are in the middle of nowhere) and houses. Even though a lot of people refer to this town as being sh*t rural (literal translation -- kuso inaka), it actually has a population density of a typical suburban neighbourhood in North America. Even with that population density, I can walk for 20 minutes or so and be in a nature preserve where nobody lives. This is pretty typical here. Farms are small. People live in towns and villages that are fairly tightly packed and surrounded by mountains. Even in fairly large cities (say around 700K or so), it won't take you more than about 15 minute of walking from the inner city to hit your first farm. I know a lot of people love big city life, but I'm not one of those people. I like living in a neighbourhood that is self contained and has a local flavour. I like knowing my neighbours and seeing them daily as they walk or bike to work (again fairly unique Japanese culture -- most people never change jobs, so they can easily live near their workplace). Even more, I like travelling and exploring my surroundings because there is something interesting in every nook and cranny. Ironically, the difficulty in travel and the geographical separation of towns makes it possible to to "travel" 10 km and be a tourist. I personally think that the people advocating the "modern city" are on the right track, even if I don't always agree on everything. However, I can understand why it is a hard sell in Canada and the US (I shouldn't lump in Mexico here, because I know nothing about it).
  - mantas 9y ago
    It's a hard sell not only in Canada or US, quite a bit of Europe has more than enough space as well. "Modern city" is good you want to optimise for dense living and certain lifestyles. Yet it fails for quite a few people and then quite a bit of it doesn't make sense. I guess the solution would be to design cities to allow both kinds of people to leave at peace. Personally I like German model. Dense urban centers with liveable country side. Looks like both kinds of people are pretty happy and they can sustain quite a lot of population too.

mantas 9y ago

> They don't wan't a neighbourhood where they walk everywhere. They want a kind of island and they really don't mind driving from island to island. It's not for me, but I can definitely understand the appeal. That's interesting. Sometimes it feels like "modern city" advocates are super extrovert narcissists who want everyone to live in crammed spaces with many people around. And then optimise for that. They're willing to sacrifice space for their needs Yet many people legitimately want to live sparsely and are willing to sacrifice other things for space.

mikekchar 9y ago
That might be a kind of extreme position, but I think you're right that they would be looking for slightly higher population densities in general. In Japan it's kind of forced on people because the country is so mountainous. You only have so much flat space to work with and you have to balance the needs of living, farming and manufacturing. People who want to live all by themselves can move up into the mountains where you are basically surrounded by nature. For me, I live in a small town. There are about 20K people in this area, although the official city is quite a bit bigger (it encompasses 3 towns and the intervening mountains for efficient administration purposes). I live in an apartment building, but that building is literally in the middle of a rice field. The whole town is a mix of farms, tea fields, manufacturing plants (including some very famous ones, even though we are in the middle of nowhere) and houses. Even though a lot of people refer to this town as being sh*t rural (literal translation -- kuso inaka), it actually has a population density of a typical suburban neighbourhood in North America. Even with that population density, I can walk for 20 minutes or so and be in a nature preserve where nobody lives. This is pretty typical here. Farms are small. People live in towns and villages that are fairly tightly packed and surrounded by mountains. Even in fairly large cities (say around 700K or so), it won't take you more than about 15 minute of walking from the inner city to hit your first farm. I know a lot of people love big city life, but I'm not one of those people. I like living in a neighbourhood that is self contained and has a local flavour. I like knowing my neighbours and seeing them daily as they walk or bike to work (again fairly unique Japanese culture -- most people never change jobs, so they can easily live near their workplace). Even more, I like travelling and exploring my surroundings because there is something interesting in every nook and cranny. Ironically, the difficulty in travel and the geographical separation of towns makes it possible to to "travel" 10 km and be a tourist. I personally think that the people advocating the "modern city" are on the right track, even if I don't always agree on everything. However, I can understand why it is a hard sell in Canada and the US (I shouldn't lump in Mexico here, because I know nothing about it).
- mantas 9y ago
  It's a hard sell not only in Canada or US, quite a bit of Europe has more than enough space as well. "Modern city" is good you want to optimise for dense living and certain lifestyles. Yet it fails for quite a few people and then quite a bit of it doesn't make sense. I guess the solution would be to design cities to allow both kinds of people to leave at peace. Personally I like German model. Dense urban centers with liveable country side. Looks like both kinds of people are pretty happy and they can sustain quite a lot of population too.