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The rise of cloud storage has totally transformed the "backup" problem. Just by using cloud storage, you get near-realtime offsite backup without thinking about

The rise of cloud storage has totally transformed the "backup" problem. Just by using cloud storage, you get near-realtime offsite backup without thinking about it. Vendors like Apple have built it into the OS. It's really one of the nicer things that's happened in personal computing lately. Granted, there's still benefit to doing a traditional "snapshot" style backup. Something like Backblaze is still a good idea. But arguably it's more of a belt-and-suspenders thing at this point. (Especially if your cloud storage offers version history.) While I've loved Backblaze's blog posts over the years, seems like this was not on their radar ten years ago. They were seeing it just as a traditional backup/restore problem. I see they've since introduced a cloud storage product (B2), but it doesn't sound that competitive.[1] Here's iCloud for comparison: - $0.005/gb/mo (2TB plan) with unlimited data transfer - Baked deep into the OS, totally automatic - Intelligently purges local files when storage runs low - Integrates with Photos app for optimized media storage - Syncs while the device is asleep (Power Nap) - HSM-protected keychain backup (geeky but groundbreaking security feature)[2] (Not so nice: doesn't do version history. Dropbox does.) Again, I've really enjoyed Backblaze's posts and hope they continue thriving in this new landscape. [1] https://www.backblaze.com/b2/cloud-storage.html https://www.backblaze.com/b2/cloud-storage.html [2] https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-16/materials/us-16-Krstic.pdf https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-16/materials/us-16-Krstic.p...

mintplant 9y ago
> The rise of cloud storage has totally transformed the "backup" problem. Just by using cloud storage, you get near-realtime offsite backup without thinking about it Then an unaccountable algorithm closes your Google account, and suddenly all that data is inaccessible. Your cloud storage provider's backups are not your backups.
- abalone 9y ago
  > Then an unaccountable algorithm closes your Google account, and suddenly all that data is inaccessible. Then a fire destroys your local backups, and suddenly all that data is inaccessible. Like I said, traditional snapshot backups are still a good extra step, but cloud storage has brought very good backup practices to the vast majority of the population. The difference versus ten years ago is probably several orders of magnitude.
- cm2187 9y ago
  I agree. Cloud is OK as backup, as in if it goes away that’s ok, I can still create a new backup from the live data. But not for live data. I found having a synology NAS to be a good solution. I sync my data mostly from home anyway so it is fast (runs locally) while also being accessible from the outside.
  - atYevP 9y ago
    Yev from Backblaze -> we're seeing a lot more folks go the NAS route, and so we're trying to work with all of the NAS providers to get B2 integrated into their ecosystems. We love the idea of having "working files" on the computer a "local archive" on the NAS, and then files forked off to B2 for an offsite component. 3-2-1 Backup at its finest!
- tinus_hn 9y ago
  You’ll find that this happens a lot less often when you’re a paying customer instead of a freeloading target for ads.
username223 9y ago
As a CrashPlan customer, I'll soon be moving to some other service when they shut down. As a Mac user, iCloud is an option. However, I'm unlikely to choose it because Backblaze or similar costs $5/mo instead of $10/mo for the amount of storage I need, and because I don't like the "cloud" storage model of treating your local drive as a cache and assuming a fast, always-on internet connection. I like to know that my files are on my local SSD, not on the other end of a flaky or nonexistent internet connection. "Intelligently purges local files" sounds like a nightmare.
- atYevP 9y ago
  Yev from Backblaze -> "Intelligently purges local files" sounds like a nightmare." Anecdotally we've had a lot of customers really confused and get bitten by this when they're traveling and try to access a bunch of things that are no longer "local".
- abalone 9y ago
  > iCloud is an option. However, I'm unlikely to choose it because Backblaze or similar costs $5/mo instead of $10/mo for the amount of storage I need Note: Backblaze charges a fairly hefty $0.02/gb to download, I believe, so restoring your 1TB backup will actually cost you $20. But my bigger point is, people are moving to cloud storage for other reasons (i.e. syncing devices, optimizing local storage) and they're getting pretty good offsite backup along with that "for free". iCloud is nicely priced if you're actually interested in cloud syncing. At 2TB it's even the same storage price as Backblaze, which is amazing, because it's a full-on intelligent syncing service that doesn't charge for data transfer either. I'll also note that intelligent purging is completely optional. There's a checkbox to turn it off for documents and/or media (separately). But if like most people you have fairly reliable internet, it's a real benefit. It makes it feasible to put your whole photo library in the cloud (mine is >1TB) and have it all immediately accessible without having to splurge on massive local storage.
  - brianwski 9y ago
    Disclaimer: I work at Backblaze > Note: Backblaze charges a fairly hefty $0.02/gb to download, I believe, so restoring your 1TB backup will actually cost you $20. Backblaze has two product lines, priced two separate ways: 1) Online backup for $5/computer. THIS IS FREE TO DOWNLOAD. 2) "B2" - this is "object storage" for half of one penny per GByte per month. This costs 2 cents/GByte to download. If you want to use B2, you cannot use the traditional "Online Backup Client" from Backblaze, instead you can choose a piece of software from this integrations page: https://www.backblaze.com/b2/integrations.html https://www.backblaze.com/b2/integrations.html (scroll down, it is long). You can see pricing "per transaction" here: https://www.backblaze.com/b2/b2-transactions-price.html https://www.backblaze.com/b2/b2-transactions-price.html Side note: the $0.02/GByte download price is definitely over-charging, and we're working to lower that. We pay 1/10th that amount wholesale for bandwidth. The fear was that if we drop our prices much more, we would become the world's cheapest CDN (Content Delivery Network) and if that occurs too fast it will overwhelm our download servers until we build out that infrastructure and gain some experience with running the world's least expensive CDN.
atYevP 9y ago
iCloud is definitely a good option but we wrote this up a while back -> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/sync-vs-backup-vs-storage/ https://www.backblaze.com/blog/sync-vs-backup-vs-storage/. We view it still as more of a Dropbox/Syncing solution. If you work 100% out of your iCloud account you could make the argument that all the data's there, but in all of our research and polling, that's not the case (even when folks have the 2TB plan - they still tend to store data all over their computer). It'll definitely be interesting to see how the service develops. We have a lot of folks that are integrating with Backblaze B2 that are doing interesting things as well! It's definitely an exciting space to be playing in right now!
- abalone 9y ago
  > If you work 100% out of your iCloud account you could make the argument that all the data's there, but in all of our research and polling, that's not the case... they still tend to store data all over their computer How recent is this research? Starting with Sierra (late 2016) Apple is including the entire Documents and Desktop folders in iCloud Drive by default.
  - atYevP 9y ago
    Fairly recent (we do yearly surveys). We certainly do see those services getting more use, but there's still a long way to go.

mintplant 9y ago

> The rise of cloud storage has totally transformed the "backup" problem. Just by using cloud storage, you get near-realtime offsite backup without thinking about it Then an unaccountable algorithm closes your Google account, and suddenly all that data is inaccessible. Your cloud storage provider's backups are not your backups.

abalone 9y ago
> Then an unaccountable algorithm closes your Google account, and suddenly all that data is inaccessible. Then a fire destroys your local backups, and suddenly all that data is inaccessible. Like I said, traditional snapshot backups are still a good extra step, but cloud storage has brought very good backup practices to the vast majority of the population. The difference versus ten years ago is probably several orders of magnitude.
cm2187 9y ago
I agree. Cloud is OK as backup, as in if it goes away that’s ok, I can still create a new backup from the live data. But not for live data. I found having a synology NAS to be a good solution. I sync my data mostly from home anyway so it is fast (runs locally) while also being accessible from the outside.
- atYevP 9y ago
  Yev from Backblaze -> we're seeing a lot more folks go the NAS route, and so we're trying to work with all of the NAS providers to get B2 integrated into their ecosystems. We love the idea of having "working files" on the computer a "local archive" on the NAS, and then files forked off to B2 for an offsite component. 3-2-1 Backup at its finest!
tinus_hn 9y ago
You’ll find that this happens a lot less often when you’re a paying customer instead of a freeloading target for ads.

username223 9y ago

As a CrashPlan customer, I'll soon be moving to some other service when they shut down. As a Mac user, iCloud is an option. However, I'm unlikely to choose it because Backblaze or similar costs $5/mo instead of $10/mo for the amount of storage I need, and because I don't like the "cloud" storage model of treating your local drive as a cache and assuming a fast, always-on internet connection. I like to know that my files are on my local SSD, not on the other end of a flaky or nonexistent internet connection. "Intelligently purges local files" sounds like a nightmare.

atYevP 9y ago
Yev from Backblaze -> "Intelligently purges local files" sounds like a nightmare." Anecdotally we've had a lot of customers really confused and get bitten by this when they're traveling and try to access a bunch of things that are no longer "local".
abalone 9y ago
> iCloud is an option. However, I'm unlikely to choose it because Backblaze or similar costs $5/mo instead of $10/mo for the amount of storage I need Note: Backblaze charges a fairly hefty $0.02/gb to download, I believe, so restoring your 1TB backup will actually cost you $20. But my bigger point is, people are moving to cloud storage for other reasons (i.e. syncing devices, optimizing local storage) and they're getting pretty good offsite backup along with that "for free". iCloud is nicely priced if you're actually interested in cloud syncing. At 2TB it's even the same storage price as Backblaze, which is amazing, because it's a full-on intelligent syncing service that doesn't charge for data transfer either. I'll also note that intelligent purging is completely optional. There's a checkbox to turn it off for documents and/or media (separately). But if like most people you have fairly reliable internet, it's a real benefit. It makes it feasible to put your whole photo library in the cloud (mine is >1TB) and have it all immediately accessible without having to splurge on massive local storage.
- brianwski 9y ago
  Disclaimer: I work at Backblaze > Note: Backblaze charges a fairly hefty $0.02/gb to download, I believe, so restoring your 1TB backup will actually cost you $20. Backblaze has two product lines, priced two separate ways: 1) Online backup for $5/computer. THIS IS FREE TO DOWNLOAD. 2) "B2" - this is "object storage" for half of one penny per GByte per month. This costs 2 cents/GByte to download. If you want to use B2, you cannot use the traditional "Online Backup Client" from Backblaze, instead you can choose a piece of software from this integrations page: https://www.backblaze.com/b2/integrations.html https://www.backblaze.com/b2/integrations.html (scroll down, it is long). You can see pricing "per transaction" here: https://www.backblaze.com/b2/b2-transactions-price.html https://www.backblaze.com/b2/b2-transactions-price.html Side note: the $0.02/GByte download price is definitely over-charging, and we're working to lower that. We pay 1/10th that amount wholesale for bandwidth. The fear was that if we drop our prices much more, we would become the world's cheapest CDN (Content Delivery Network) and if that occurs too fast it will overwhelm our download servers until we build out that infrastructure and gain some experience with running the world's least expensive CDN.

atYevP 9y ago

iCloud is definitely a good option but we wrote this up a while back -> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/sync-vs-backup-vs-storage/ https://www.backblaze.com/blog/sync-vs-backup-vs-storage/. We view it still as more of a Dropbox/Syncing solution. If you work 100% out of your iCloud account you could make the argument that all the data's there, but in all of our research and polling, that's not the case (even when folks have the 2TB plan - they still tend to store data all over their computer). It'll definitely be interesting to see how the service develops. We have a lot of folks that are integrating with Backblaze B2 that are doing interesting things as well! It's definitely an exciting space to be playing in right now!

abalone 9y ago
> If you work 100% out of your iCloud account you could make the argument that all the data's there, but in all of our research and polling, that's not the case... they still tend to store data all over their computer How recent is this research? Starting with Sierra (late 2016) Apple is including the entire Documents and Desktop folders in iCloud Drive by default.
- atYevP 9y ago
  Fairly recent (we do yearly surveys). We certainly do see those services getting more use, but there's still a long way to go.