4 ms·

You forgot about pedestrians. Should we throw away research that says pedestrian death is more likely when speed is higher than 50kph?

by llukas 9y ago

ronsor 9y ago
There are no pedestrians on highways.
- Piskvorrr 9y ago
  Babylonian alert: in some Englishes, "highway" is "road", whereas in others it means "high-speed motor vehicle road". Confusing, yes: given that the article talks about rural and city roads and the GP tries to refute it through freeway speed limits, apparently some of the confusion is present here as well.
  - oasisbob 9y ago
    Very good point. Also, in some areas highway is the term used in law for any "road", even if it's not in common use and residents still equate highway with a more high-speed limited access facility.
  - u801e 9y ago
    In American English, a highway is, what you term, a "high-speed motor vehicle road". As far as I know, the equivalent term in other English speaking countries (and other countries where English is used as a secondary language) is motorway.
- eesmith 9y ago
  That is not true, even in the US. For one, people may be allowed to walk even on freeways if their car has broken down and they are walking to the nearest exit. I've walked on the highway because I ran out of gas and it was only a mile to the nearest gas station. I've also picked up someone rolling a flat tire to the next exit. Here's the relevant Louisiana law, from http://legis.la.gov/Legis/Law.aspx?d=88191 http://legis.la.gov/Legis/Law.aspx?d=88191 : > Pedestrians on highways or interstate highways: > A. Where sidewalks are provided, it shall be unlawful for any pedestrian to walk along and upon an adjacent highway. > B. Where sidewalks are not provided, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall, when practicable, walk only on the left side of the highway or its shoulder, facing traffic which may approach from the opposite direction. > C. It shall be unlawful for any pedestrian to cross an interstate highway, except in the case of an emergency Here's part of the law for Idaho, from https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/Title49/T49CH7/SECT49-708/ https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/Title49/T... : > (3) Where neither a sidewalk nor a shoulder is available, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall walk as near as practicable to an outside edge of the roadway, and, if on a two-way highway, shall walk only on the left side of the highway. Thus, it can be legal to walk on a highway. Do people do it? Yes. In New Mexico, people do the pilgrimage to Santuario de Chimayo. Here's a picture of people doing that while walking on the shoulder of Highway 503: https://www.abqjournal.com/562845/route-for-chimayo-holy-week-pilgrims-being-prepared.html https://www.abqjournal.com/562845/route-for-chimayo-holy-wee... Here are some monks doing a pilgrimage along local and state highways from New Orleans to Memphis. https://www.catholicherald.com/Faith/Dominican_friars_to_make_pilgrimage_on_foot/ https://www.catholicherald.com/Faith/Dominican_friars_to_mak... Here's a man walking around the Salton Sea, from http://dineshdesai.info/saltonwalk/index.html http://dineshdesai.info/saltonwalk/index.html : > "Is it permissible to walk along the new section of the highway south of 66th Avenue? ... a CHP officer picks up the phone and tells me that it is O.K. to walk along the old 86 as well as the new 86S."
  - bluedino 9y ago
    It's usually only legal to walk on a highway if you are leaving a broken down vehicle. Even then, it's basically a death wish. It's not however legal to walk onto a highway, or used a bike, or motorbike under 250cc. It's posted at the on/ramp
    - eesmith 9y ago
      I pointed to the laws of two states which seem to say something different than what you just wrote. (Specifically, there is no blanket ban which makes it illegal to walk onto a highway.) I could point to others if that would help. I pointed to images and accounts of people walking on highways, including a pilgrimage which has been done for 200+ years. I'm therefore confused about why you write that it's not legal to walk onto a highway, when I gave plenty of evidence that it is both legal and something that people do. I'm also confused why I was downvoted. What sort of evidence is needed to disprove ronsor's statement "There are no pedestrians on highways."? I think you are specifically talking about restrictions on a limited access highway. (lsh123 brought up "US highways", which is a broader term). Even then this, there isn't a blanket restriction across the US. For example, concerning bicycles I'll quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-motorized_access_on_freeways https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-motorized_access_on_freewa... : > Different states of the United States have different laws. Cycling on freeways in Arizona may be prohibited only where there is an alternative route judged equal or better for cycling.[1] Wyoming, the least populated state, allows cycling on all freeways. Oregon allows bicycles except on specific urban freeways in Portland and Medford. I used to live on one of those states which allow bicycles on the interstate, and I've seen people cycling on it. But you don't have to take my word for it. Here's a WA DOT poster describing how cyclists will need to detour off the interstate due to construction, http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/F4E32F19-5443-417D-BE5D-D525D1EC2EAD/68279/SPE_Bike_Detour_Mapweb1.pdf http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/F4E32F19-5443-417D-BE5D... , with text like "Westbound bicyclists are required to leave Interstate 90 at Exit 62 - Stampede Pass near milepost 62." Or from http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/paffairs/faq/faq67.htm http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/paffairs/faq/faq67.htm which says "Of the more than 4,000 miles of freeways in California, about 1,000 miles are open to bicyclists." And yes, even pedestrians can be on interstates. Going again to the pilgrimage at Chimayó in New Mexico, here is news coverage describing people walking on the interstate. > "Noah Martinez takes a short break Wednesday and changes his socks in anticipation of walking up La Bajada on Interstate 25, continuing his 90-mile pilgrimage ... " - http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/faith-tradition-drive-new-mexicans-on-long-road-to-chimay/article_404e7862-cedb-5022-9566-89d12d08c2b5.html http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/faith-tradi... (with picture) > "As usual, hundreds of pilgrims have already been on the roads – from Interstate 25 to the small highways leading into Chimayó" - https://www.abqjournal.com/987674/pilgrims-progress.html https://www.abqjournal.com/987674/pilgrims-progress.html Why do you believe I am incorrect in my evidence?

You forgot about pedestrians. Should we throw away research that says pedestrian death is more likely when speed is higher than 50kph?

by llukas 9y ago

You forgot about pedestrians. Should we throw away research that says pedestrian death is more likely when speed is higher than 50kph?

ronsor 9y ago

There are no pedestrians on highways.

Piskvorrr 9y ago
Babylonian alert: in some Englishes, "highway" is "road", whereas in others it means "high-speed motor vehicle road". Confusing, yes: given that the article talks about rural and city roads and the GP tries to refute it through freeway speed limits, apparently some of the confusion is present here as well.
- oasisbob 9y ago
  Very good point. Also, in some areas highway is the term used in law for any "road", even if it's not in common use and residents still equate highway with a more high-speed limited access facility.
- u801e 9y ago
  In American English, a highway is, what you term, a "high-speed motor vehicle road". As far as I know, the equivalent term in other English speaking countries (and other countries where English is used as a secondary language) is motorway.
eesmith 9y ago
That is not true, even in the US. For one, people may be allowed to walk even on freeways if their car has broken down and they are walking to the nearest exit. I've walked on the highway because I ran out of gas and it was only a mile to the nearest gas station. I've also picked up someone rolling a flat tire to the next exit. Here's the relevant Louisiana law, from http://legis.la.gov/Legis/Law.aspx?d=88191 http://legis.la.gov/Legis/Law.aspx?d=88191 : > Pedestrians on highways or interstate highways: > A. Where sidewalks are provided, it shall be unlawful for any pedestrian to walk along and upon an adjacent highway. > B. Where sidewalks are not provided, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall, when practicable, walk only on the left side of the highway or its shoulder, facing traffic which may approach from the opposite direction. > C. It shall be unlawful for any pedestrian to cross an interstate highway, except in the case of an emergency Here's part of the law for Idaho, from https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/Title49/T49CH7/SECT49-708/ https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/Title49/T... : > (3) Where neither a sidewalk nor a shoulder is available, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall walk as near as practicable to an outside edge of the roadway, and, if on a two-way highway, shall walk only on the left side of the highway. Thus, it can be legal to walk on a highway. Do people do it? Yes. In New Mexico, people do the pilgrimage to Santuario de Chimayo. Here's a picture of people doing that while walking on the shoulder of Highway 503: https://www.abqjournal.com/562845/route-for-chimayo-holy-week-pilgrims-being-prepared.html https://www.abqjournal.com/562845/route-for-chimayo-holy-wee... Here are some monks doing a pilgrimage along local and state highways from New Orleans to Memphis. https://www.catholicherald.com/Faith/Dominican_friars_to_make_pilgrimage_on_foot/ https://www.catholicherald.com/Faith/Dominican_friars_to_mak... Here's a man walking around the Salton Sea, from http://dineshdesai.info/saltonwalk/index.html http://dineshdesai.info/saltonwalk/index.html : > "Is it permissible to walk along the new section of the highway south of 66th Avenue? ... a CHP officer picks up the phone and tells me that it is O.K. to walk along the old 86 as well as the new 86S."
- bluedino 9y ago
  It's usually only legal to walk on a highway if you are leaving a broken down vehicle. Even then, it's basically a death wish. It's not however legal to walk onto a highway, or used a bike, or motorbike under 250cc. It's posted at the on/ramp
  - eesmith 9y ago
    I pointed to the laws of two states which seem to say something different than what you just wrote. (Specifically, there is no blanket ban which makes it illegal to walk onto a highway.) I could point to others if that would help. I pointed to images and accounts of people walking on highways, including a pilgrimage which has been done for 200+ years. I'm therefore confused about why you write that it's not legal to walk onto a highway, when I gave plenty of evidence that it is both legal and something that people do. I'm also confused why I was downvoted. What sort of evidence is needed to disprove ronsor's statement "There are no pedestrians on highways."? I think you are specifically talking about restrictions on a limited access highway. (lsh123 brought up "US highways", which is a broader term). Even then this, there isn't a blanket restriction across the US. For example, concerning bicycles I'll quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-motorized_access_on_freeways https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-motorized_access_on_freewa... : > Different states of the United States have different laws. Cycling on freeways in Arizona may be prohibited only where there is an alternative route judged equal or better for cycling.[1] Wyoming, the least populated state, allows cycling on all freeways. Oregon allows bicycles except on specific urban freeways in Portland and Medford. I used to live on one of those states which allow bicycles on the interstate, and I've seen people cycling on it. But you don't have to take my word for it. Here's a WA DOT poster describing how cyclists will need to detour off the interstate due to construction, http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/F4E32F19-5443-417D-BE5D-D525D1EC2EAD/68279/SPE_Bike_Detour_Mapweb1.pdf http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/F4E32F19-5443-417D-BE5D... , with text like "Westbound bicyclists are required to leave Interstate 90 at Exit 62 - Stampede Pass near milepost 62." Or from http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/paffairs/faq/faq67.htm http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/paffairs/faq/faq67.htm which says "Of the more than 4,000 miles of freeways in California, about 1,000 miles are open to bicyclists." And yes, even pedestrians can be on interstates. Going again to the pilgrimage at Chimayó in New Mexico, here is news coverage describing people walking on the interstate. > "Noah Martinez takes a short break Wednesday and changes his socks in anticipation of walking up La Bajada on Interstate 25, continuing his 90-mile pilgrimage ... " - http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/faith-tradition-drive-new-mexicans-on-long-road-to-chimay/article_404e7862-cedb-5022-9566-89d12d08c2b5.html http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/faith-tradi... (with picture) > "As usual, hundreds of pilgrims have already been on the roads – from Interstate 25 to the small highways leading into Chimayó" - https://www.abqjournal.com/987674/pilgrims-progress.html https://www.abqjournal.com/987674/pilgrims-progress.html Why do you believe I am incorrect in my evidence?