3 ms·

Some of the harshest criticisms of Apple have been coming from diehard fans in Apple's market niche My first Mac was an LC475 upgraded with a real '040 to run

by gaius 9y ago

Some of the harshest criticisms of Apple have been coming from diehard fans in Apple's market niche My first Mac was an LC475 upgraded with a real '040 to run MATLAB, back in oh, '94 I think. Also had a second-hand SE30 to run Word 5.1 (still the best version). Next up was a Power Mac 7600 when I needed more grunt to run FORTRAN code. Amazing machine, the price/performance was incredible. It was faster than a DEC Alpha 3000 at a fraction of the price! A few more both desktop and laptop between then and now. So I think I count as a long-term Mac user and loyal customer. My current machines are a 2008 MBP and a 2014 Mac Mini. Apple simply haven't given me any compelling reason to upgrade, in fact have pushed me to offload my compute needs to Azure. Now that I have made that leap, I'm actually not particularly interested in a real Mac Pro anymore, I just don't need it. I can't be alone, and this will bite Apple in the ass at some point. Who's buying the current MBP then? Not professional users, just people looking to flash the brand. Which is fine, but the fashion crowd is fickle. Apple has chosen to court them rather than 20+ year customers. And that's OK too, it's their business to run as they see fit. But a third thing that is fine is for people to post their opinions of it...

biztos 9y ago
"Flash the brand?" Really? I bought an MBP last year, because I needed a new computer and I still think the Macs are the best for my needs, in both software and hardware. And I am most definitely a professional user. Do I wish it had a few more ports and a quieter keyboard? Yes! Did that ever seriously threaten my purchase? No! I don't think anybody who wants to just show off the logo is going to buy an MBP over a straight MB, which is lighter and (IMO) better looking. But is that even "a thing" with computers in 2018?
- gaius 9y ago
  "Flash the brand?" Really? I don't know where you are but in the UK there is a TV ad suggesting a MBP is the ideal machine for parent to buy a first-year undergrad. The prioritization of thinness above everything else - when there is already the Macbook Air for that market segment - is a further example. I'll buy a brand new MBP as soon as there is a compelling reason to replace my 10 year old one. That just hasn't happened yet.
  - wtallis 9y ago
    > I'll buy a brand new MBP as soon as there is a compelling reason to replace my 10 year old one. That just hasn't happened yet. If you're satisfied with the performance of a Core 2 Duo, still able to get fresh batteries, too old for your eyes to benefit from a Retina display, and don't want to shave off 25-40% of the weight, then why do you expect that there ever could be a compelling reason to replace your current MBP? If you don't want anything more from your computer, then how is anyone supposed to entice you with a computer that does more?
Veen 9y ago
Perhaps your definition of professional is too narrow. I'm a professional writer (and hobbyist coder). I used a MacBook Air for four years before upgrading to a MacBook Pro. My reasons for upgrading to a MacBook Pro were: (i) the better screen (which matters when you're looking at it eight hours a day), (ii) improved performance compared to the Air or the MacBook, (iii) the ability to drive a couple of high-definition external screens, and (iv) all the above on on a portable device that runs MacOS. Number iv is probably the most important reason: I prefer MacOS. If you construe "professional" as someone with high CPU and GPU processing demands, then perhaps I don't count. But that's a tiny market: most professionals who choose a MacBook choose it for the same reasons I did.
- gaius 9y ago
  Number iv is probably the most important reason: I prefer MacOS. Yes, me too, so I find myself in a weird no-mans-land - I don't want to switch to another platform, and I don't want to buy anything in the recent line-up. I will be forced to when my Mini becomes unsupported for OS updates, then I will spend as little as I can to get back in the game, because they have already pushed me into the mindset and workflow of offloading the heavy lifting. But offer me a machine as radical my old 7600 was relative to what I had previously and relative to the rest of the market, and I'll jump at it.
akvadrako 9y ago
Nobody cares if you are happy with your old model; maybe there just isn't any reason for you to upgrade at all. But for people that want a new laptop, the MBP is the best machine available by many metrics, especially the screen - it's finally bright enough I can work outside on a sunny day.
- gaius 9y ago
  Nobody cares if you are happy with your old model; maybe there just isn't any reason for you to upgrade at all A manufacturer that in 10 years hadn’t produced a compelling reason to upgrade doesn’t strike you as a little odd? Nevertheless the point stands; its not “haters” criticising Apple here, but long term fans and customers
  - akvadrako 9y ago
    I don't see how former fans can't be haters and in either case it's unreasonable. PC's became good enough for most common tasks years ago and a lot of the low-hanging fruit has been picked. The technology is not quite ready to go the next step, like for example worthwhile VR. You didn't even explain what you want from Apple. Is it about performance or some groundbreaking new feature?
    - gaius 9y ago
      You didn't even explain what you want from Apple. Is it about performance or some groundbreaking new feature? I think most professional MBP users would happily trade 5mm thickness for 32 or even 64G RAM, and a better CPU/GPU.
rsynnott 9y ago
My work machine is a 2017 MBP; previously a 2013 one, and before that 2008 or so. For my usecase (programmer), it’s so much better than the 2008 one it’s not even funny, and also substantially better than the 2013 one (in particular, the SSD is much faster, and the battery holds up better for me). I’m a professional user. I’m not really seeing the problem (for my usecase). Edit: Also, I know people love to complain about how thin it’s gotten, but as someone who has to drag it to meetings a lot, I kind of appreciate the thinness (along with the one-port connection when I get it back to the desk).

by gaius 9y ago

biztos 9y ago

"Flash the brand?" Really? I bought an MBP last year, because I needed a new computer and I still think the Macs are the best for my needs, in both software and hardware. And I am most definitely a professional user. Do I wish it had a few more ports and a quieter keyboard? Yes! Did that ever seriously threaten my purchase? No! I don't think anybody who wants to just show off the logo is going to buy an MBP over a straight MB, which is lighter and (IMO) better looking. But is that even "a thing" with computers in 2018?

gaius 9y ago
"Flash the brand?" Really? I don't know where you are but in the UK there is a TV ad suggesting a MBP is the ideal machine for parent to buy a first-year undergrad. The prioritization of thinness above everything else - when there is already the Macbook Air for that market segment - is a further example. I'll buy a brand new MBP as soon as there is a compelling reason to replace my 10 year old one. That just hasn't happened yet.
- wtallis 9y ago
  > I'll buy a brand new MBP as soon as there is a compelling reason to replace my 10 year old one. That just hasn't happened yet. If you're satisfied with the performance of a Core 2 Duo, still able to get fresh batteries, too old for your eyes to benefit from a Retina display, and don't want to shave off 25-40% of the weight, then why do you expect that there ever could be a compelling reason to replace your current MBP? If you don't want anything more from your computer, then how is anyone supposed to entice you with a computer that does more?

Veen 9y ago

Perhaps your definition of professional is too narrow. I'm a professional writer (and hobbyist coder). I used a MacBook Air for four years before upgrading to a MacBook Pro. My reasons for upgrading to a MacBook Pro were: (i) the better screen (which matters when you're looking at it eight hours a day), (ii) improved performance compared to the Air or the MacBook, (iii) the ability to drive a couple of high-definition external screens, and (iv) all the above on on a portable device that runs MacOS. Number iv is probably the most important reason: I prefer MacOS. If you construe "professional" as someone with high CPU and GPU processing demands, then perhaps I don't count. But that's a tiny market: most professionals who choose a MacBook choose it for the same reasons I did.

gaius 9y ago
Number iv is probably the most important reason: I prefer MacOS. Yes, me too, so I find myself in a weird no-mans-land - I don't want to switch to another platform, and I don't want to buy anything in the recent line-up. I will be forced to when my Mini becomes unsupported for OS updates, then I will spend as little as I can to get back in the game, because they have already pushed me into the mindset and workflow of offloading the heavy lifting. But offer me a machine as radical my old 7600 was relative to what I had previously and relative to the rest of the market, and I'll jump at it.

akvadrako 9y ago

Nobody cares if you are happy with your old model; maybe there just isn't any reason for you to upgrade at all. But for people that want a new laptop, the MBP is the best machine available by many metrics, especially the screen - it's finally bright enough I can work outside on a sunny day.

gaius 9y ago
Nobody cares if you are happy with your old model; maybe there just isn't any reason for you to upgrade at all A manufacturer that in 10 years hadn’t produced a compelling reason to upgrade doesn’t strike you as a little odd? Nevertheless the point stands; its not “haters” criticising Apple here, but long term fans and customers
- akvadrako 9y ago
  I don't see how former fans can't be haters and in either case it's unreasonable. PC's became good enough for most common tasks years ago and a lot of the low-hanging fruit has been picked. The technology is not quite ready to go the next step, like for example worthwhile VR. You didn't even explain what you want from Apple. Is it about performance or some groundbreaking new feature?
  - gaius 9y ago
    You didn't even explain what you want from Apple. Is it about performance or some groundbreaking new feature? I think most professional MBP users would happily trade 5mm thickness for 32 or even 64G RAM, and a better CPU/GPU.

rsynnott 9y ago

My work machine is a 2017 MBP; previously a 2013 one, and before that 2008 or so. For my usecase (programmer), it’s so much better than the 2008 one it’s not even funny, and also substantially better than the 2013 one (in particular, the SSD is much faster, and the battery holds up better for me). I’m a professional user. I’m not really seeing the problem (for my usecase). Edit: Also, I know people love to complain about how thin it’s gotten, but as someone who has to drag it to meetings a lot, I kind of appreciate the thinness (along with the one-port connection when I get it back to the desk).