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But the universe is turing complete, so the only way to predict what will happen is to run a perfect simulation of everything in the universe. This is clearly i
by syrrim 9y ago
But the universe is turing complete, so the only way to predict what will happen is to run a perfect simulation of everything in the universe. This is clearly impossible within the universe, and so your actions remain unpredictable.
- mannykannot 9y agoThis line of thought applies equally well to every individual hydrogen atom in the universe as it does to a person, yet it does not follow that they also have free will. Where OP says 'predictable', I think he means 'determined' or 'pre-ordained'.
- dingo_bat 9y agoBut since you cannot differentiate between predictable and preordained, what is the difference?
- mannykannot 9y agoThat something is not predictable does not mean that it is not pre-ordained, even if one cannot tell the difference. Classical mechanics is a model that is fully deterministic yet ultimately unpredictable, and similarly, syyrim's model of the universe as Turing-complete seems to assume it is pre-ordained (a model that goldenkey challenges), and yet ultimately unpredictable. On re-reading the thread, I am not sure what point syyrim was making. The ultimate unpredictability of the universe doesn't seem to settle any issue with regard to free will. Free will is not a claim that we cannot predict what we will do; it is a claim that we can make a choice (within some constraints) about what we will do.
- goldenkey 9y agoNot even. If you take Heisenbergs uncertainty principle to be true, then we can never truly know the full state of any matter. So even if we knew the rules, we wouldn't have the seed. This is also known as the knowledge balance principle. See link below: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spekkens_toy_model https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spekkens_toy_model