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It seems like articles about WeWork take one of two tacks: 1. Isn't this "gig economy" thing weird? Isn't it strange that people don't have stable long term em

by munin 9y ago

It seems like articles about WeWork take one of two tacks: 1. Isn't this "gig economy" thing weird? Isn't it strange that people don't have stable long term employment? What's up with that? Is it good? 2. Look at these weird people trying to make dating apps for dogs. This is so weird. Instead of working in a trading or ad shop and getting drunk at 3, they work for a tiny "internet company" and get drunk at 3. The sacrilege! This seems to be a mix of both, though the article is definitely not trying to paint millennial entrepreneurs in a positive light, you can tell by the choice of focusing on a GS alumni. I do think that anyone who complains about the WeWork aesthetic or whatever should try to rent their own short term office space (that isn't WeWork). It's fucking grim. You wind up in some ancient building with spongy floors, dodgy elevators, and signs in the bathrooms about how the pipes are bad so please basically don't flush anything. Or in a strip mall above a dentists office. Or the attic of a converted condo. The WeWork goal seems to be to provide some space with decent amenities for a slight premium. What's wrong with that? Maybe their locations will vanish in a puff of smoke when demand dries up, but no one's asking you to invest your money in the future of WeWork. Would you go to a new restaurant opening and say "well yeah the food is good but most restaurants fail"? Who cares! Eat the food. Enjoy it while it's here.

badwolf 9y ago
>Or the attic of a converted condo. That's literally my current situation - in a 3rd floor attic. When our lease is up later this year we're most likely just going to go WeWork.
tptacek 9y ago
We were in WeWork in Chicago --- there's 3 of them here, we were in West Loop --- for about a year. We left and rented an office, maybe 1100sqft?, about a 7 minute walk away. It has parking, relative (to WeWork) quiet, high ceilings, a kitchen, 2 private bathrooms, and conference rooms we don't need to reserve in a weird app or barter with friends for/with. We're 4 people (in this office). We pay less per person than we did at WeWork. WeWork is useful! I think it gets a bad rap (though the atmosphere and the general vibe of the clientele probably does not). But unless you're in SFBA or Manhattan, office space is just not that expensive. As soon as you're making payroll, it's pretty insignificant. If I start from 1-2 people again, I'll probably consider WeWork again. But I'll get out of WeWork much faster next time, too.
- bane 9y ago
  At a previous gig we used some shared office spaces like WeWork on occasion and they were "ok". We decided to stop because it just didn't make financial sense in the end. It turns out that renting a decent-sized office in most metros and furnishing it isn't all that expensive. It's really only in bizarre markets like SF or NYC where they really click. My thinking is that they work much better for companies in the 1 or 2 person early stage and quickly stop making sense as you near some number approaching 10 people.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- SpeciesInvader 9y ago
  We're also in Chicago, have seen tons of space like WeWork, and decided for the pet person cost it was more effective to get a commercial lease. Yes it was unnerving to sign a 3 year lease (especially as a boot strapped startup), but we just renewed for our 4th year! As for Co working spaces, I think they have a place, but once you hit 1 or 2 other coworkers, you need your own space. It's worth the lawyer for reviewing what you're getting in to, but I do agree, there's a lot of sketchy places with dodgy and gross problems. But you can find nice spots if you're patient and diligent.
  - unalloy 9y ago
    Whats your startup do?
    - voicedYoda 9y ago
      Automates workflows in health care provider offices.
  - martinald 9y ago
    The problem with leasing is if you grow too fast you're stuck, and if you have to make cutbacks you're also stuck with the lease. This is the real advantage of them. Even if it costs x% more the value of not being stuck with a lease for a long time is definitely worth it. A lot of financial firms in London are moving to them, leases are typically long (10 years with a 5 year break), and with the uncertainty around brexit it makes total sense to transfer the risk to WeWork et al for not much money at all.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
deepGem 9y ago
I worked at a WeWork facility for 2 months in Bangalore. Thoroughly enjoyed it. I wouldn't think of renting a place again. It's a fucking nightmare here to deal with landlords, house keeping staff, electricity connection, internet connection and what not. I just wish they had a better system for printing. It's a goddamn nightmare with the codes and printing queues. Just cut the crap out of printing administration and just make it free already.
- guhan_ganesh 9y ago
  I feel WeWork spaces are costlier in Bangalore, compared to the other co working spaces. I have looked around co-working spaces (mostly remodelled houses) which provides a quiet workspace with basic amenities for one third of WeWork's price. You are bang on point about renting a place on your own. Absolute nightmare in Bangalore.
jasonwilk 9y ago
Personally I like to start my businesses in coworking spaces because I hate them and it makes me motivated to move out as quickly as possible. I always thought WeWork was strange. Most people’s goal is the same, get out as soon as you’re ready.
notthemessiah 9y ago
> Isn't this "gig economy" thing weird? Isn't it strange that people don't have stable long term employment? What's up with that? Is it good? If you look at it purely from the perspective of economic theory, stable long-term employment is weirder than everybody being an individual contractor. Ronald Coase asks the question "Why do firms even exist in the first place?" [1] and comes to the conclusion that many transaction costs come along with marketplaces, and firms may be well-suited for dealing with those transaction costs internally. In this light, It may be observed that the gig economy firms "solve" transaction cost sub-problems, eradicating the bulwark of the firm and exposing the would-be workers to the competitive forces of the marketplace. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nature_of_the_Firm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nature_of_the_Firm
- ghaff 9y ago
  Furthermore, people wring their hands over the gig economy mostly in some specific contexts like Uber drivers. They’re shedding far fewer tears for their plumber who isn’t available for another month.
  - notthemessiah 9y ago
    It should be noted that Uber isn't cheaper to operate than a cab, they are just operating at a loss to destroy the taxi industry. As soon as it's done with that, prices should rise.
    - mixmastamyk 9y ago
      Yes, though they are avoiding permit fees as well.
      - notthemessiah 9y ago
        Permit fees don't come out of nowhere, they come out of the transaction costs of finding reputable drivers, a cost that Uber is rediscovering.
- 9y ago

by munin 9y ago

badwolf 9y ago

>Or the attic of a converted condo. That's literally my current situation - in a 3rd floor attic. When our lease is up later this year we're most likely just going to go WeWork.

tptacek 9y ago

We were in WeWork in Chicago --- there's 3 of them here, we were in West Loop --- for about a year. We left and rented an office, maybe 1100sqft?, about a 7 minute walk away. It has parking, relative (to WeWork) quiet, high ceilings, a kitchen, 2 private bathrooms, and conference rooms we don't need to reserve in a weird app or barter with friends for/with. We're 4 people (in this office). We pay less per person than we did at WeWork. WeWork is useful! I think it gets a bad rap (though the atmosphere and the general vibe of the clientele probably does not). But unless you're in SFBA or Manhattan, office space is just not that expensive. As soon as you're making payroll, it's pretty insignificant. If I start from 1-2 people again, I'll probably consider WeWork again. But I'll get out of WeWork much faster next time, too.

bane 9y ago
At a previous gig we used some shared office spaces like WeWork on occasion and they were "ok". We decided to stop because it just didn't make financial sense in the end. It turns out that renting a decent-sized office in most metros and furnishing it isn't all that expensive. It's really only in bizarre markets like SF or NYC where they really click. My thinking is that they work much better for companies in the 1 or 2 person early stage and quickly stop making sense as you near some number approaching 10 people.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
SpeciesInvader 9y ago
We're also in Chicago, have seen tons of space like WeWork, and decided for the pet person cost it was more effective to get a commercial lease. Yes it was unnerving to sign a 3 year lease (especially as a boot strapped startup), but we just renewed for our 4th year! As for Co working spaces, I think they have a place, but once you hit 1 or 2 other coworkers, you need your own space. It's worth the lawyer for reviewing what you're getting in to, but I do agree, there's a lot of sketchy places with dodgy and gross problems. But you can find nice spots if you're patient and diligent.
- unalloy 9y ago
  Whats your startup do?
  - voicedYoda 9y ago
    Automates workflows in health care provider offices.
- martinald 9y ago
  The problem with leasing is if you grow too fast you're stuck, and if you have to make cutbacks you're also stuck with the lease. This is the real advantage of them. Even if it costs x% more the value of not being stuck with a lease for a long time is definitely worth it. A lot of financial firms in London are moving to them, leases are typically long (10 years with a 5 year break), and with the uncertainty around brexit it makes total sense to transfer the risk to WeWork et al for not much money at all.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

deepGem 9y ago

I worked at a WeWork facility for 2 months in Bangalore. Thoroughly enjoyed it. I wouldn't think of renting a place again. It's a fucking nightmare here to deal with landlords, house keeping staff, electricity connection, internet connection and what not. I just wish they had a better system for printing. It's a goddamn nightmare with the codes and printing queues. Just cut the crap out of printing administration and just make it free already.

guhan_ganesh 9y ago
I feel WeWork spaces are costlier in Bangalore, compared to the other co working spaces. I have looked around co-working spaces (mostly remodelled houses) which provides a quiet workspace with basic amenities for one third of WeWork's price. You are bang on point about renting a place on your own. Absolute nightmare in Bangalore.

jasonwilk 9y ago

Personally I like to start my businesses in coworking spaces because I hate them and it makes me motivated to move out as quickly as possible. I always thought WeWork was strange. Most people’s goal is the same, get out as soon as you’re ready.

notthemessiah 9y ago

> Isn't this "gig economy" thing weird? Isn't it strange that people don't have stable long term employment? What's up with that? Is it good? If you look at it purely from the perspective of economic theory, stable long-term employment is weirder than everybody being an individual contractor. Ronald Coase asks the question "Why do firms even exist in the first place?" [1] and comes to the conclusion that many transaction costs come along with marketplaces, and firms may be well-suited for dealing with those transaction costs internally. In this light, It may be observed that the gig economy firms "solve" transaction cost sub-problems, eradicating the bulwark of the firm and exposing the would-be workers to the competitive forces of the marketplace. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nature_of_the_Firm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nature_of_the_Firm

ghaff 9y ago
Furthermore, people wring their hands over the gig economy mostly in some specific contexts like Uber drivers. They’re shedding far fewer tears for their plumber who isn’t available for another month.
- notthemessiah 9y ago
  It should be noted that Uber isn't cheaper to operate than a cab, they are just operating at a loss to destroy the taxi industry. As soon as it's done with that, prices should rise.
  - mixmastamyk 9y ago
    Yes, though they are avoiding permit fees as well.
    - notthemessiah 9y ago
      Permit fees don't come out of nowhere, they come out of the transaction costs of finding reputable drivers, a cost that Uber is rediscovering.
9y ago