10 ms·

I have done countless developer interviews. I did bad hires and made good hires. Two things I learned: 1. Get them to write code (using their language of choic

I have done countless developer interviews. I did bad hires and made good hires. Two things I learned: 1. Get them to write code (using their language of choice and google searches allowed when stuck) 2. Did they do any projects on the side? A lot of people who sound great on paper can’t write code. Or write shitty code. People who are passionate about their work read a lot and do side projects.

rco8786 9y ago
I hate the side projects trope. I’ve worked with tons of great engineers who have lives outside of code.
- shados 9y ago
  You can absolutely be good without side projects. And there are a lot of ways to be useful as a software engineer. But all other things being equal, when looking at code, it literally comes down to practice. The more code you've written, the more things you've had to research and the more mistakes you've already made, the faster you'll be able to produce good code in the future. Side projects help that aspect. Because there's only so much you can do and learn during your day job. You can always make up for it with other skills, experience, or just the difficulty level of the projects you've been on and nail the job anyway. Side projects help people who DON'T have all of that nail jobs. They can go "Look, I may not have worked for Google, or I may be only a few years out of school (if I ever went to school), but I made up for it with these projects". And of course, you can always have both :)
- mlevental 9y ago
  you know what i hate? recklessly divisive rhetoric. a life out of code and side-projects: the two things are not mutually exclusive. op isn't suggested he expects candidates to have written an os kernel. all op says is he/she looks for side-projects. if you were really interested in discussing the matter you would've asked some exploratory questions (e.g. what is the threshold for substantial side-project). then you would've really had an interesting conversation (because it is possible to have a life outside of programming and still be interested/engaged enough to have a couple of small side projects. and it's completely fair to expect engineers to get extra training. many many many other professions have exactly the same requirements. doctors/dentists have to regularly get re-tested on certain skills/attend conferences/etc.). but no instead you with the one-liner. try just a little harder and maybe you'll actually change someone's mind that's blindly obsessed with side-projects.
  - rco8786 9y ago
    I seemed to have hit a nerve with you. Sorry if my comment offended you. I have no interest in actually discussing what constitutes a side project and what doesn’t. Let me more clearly articulate my point: Side projects have no bearing on the quality of an engineer.
    - lsadam0 9y ago
      But quality side projects are quite helpful in identifying a valuable engineer. A lack of them is not a warning sign either.
- nip 9y ago
  These are not mutually exclusive. I have a life and work on side projects at the same time. I started the latest one during a 1 week transition between jobs. I was able to work full time on it while my SO was working. Since then, I have been working between 0 and 10h each weekends. I usually only read (both code related and general litterature) during week days. It’s entirely possible, just requires a bit of organisation.
JustSomeNobody 9y ago
I've loved to code since I learned how on my C=64. I don't have a github full of side projects. The code I write at home is one off stuff for learning and keeping up, not some rehash of "twitter in a weekend". Some company that doesn't want me because I don't have side projects, that's fine, they saved me the trouble.
- eropple 9y ago
  This feels reductive. Why do side projects have to be "Twitter in a weekend"? My current side project is a Rack framework for making OpenAPI3-first APIs. "It's certainly not Twitter in a weekend." I learned Swagger/OpenAPI 2.0, so I used grape-swagger; found it frustrating and limited to OpenAPI 2.0 so now I'm using OpenAPI 3.0 and writing `Modern` to properly embed my understanding of it. If I were looking for a job (I'm not), I would fully expect that this speaks to my understanding of and my comfort with designing and implementing good APIs.
- lsadam0 9y ago
  Why not just put all of this learning code online? A side project doesn’t have to be Twitter in a weekend.
  - JustSomeNobody 9y ago
    Because cleaning it up would waste time I could be spending learning other things, and I don't want people looking at it to think I code like this when I'm getting paid to do it.
    - lsadam0 9y ago
      Just from my point of view: Code that is a bit on the messy side is perfectly fine if the qualification of "This is a learning exercise" is attached.
kabdib 9y ago
Side projects are not a reliable metric. I have worked with fantastic developers -- ones who I'd love to work with again -- who did not do side projects. These were generally people who did really great work while using normal hours, but who would put in the hours when necessary, such as during a deadline push. Often their organizational skills and general engineering hygiene helped keep the crazy hours at bay. At night these people went home to their families and led their lives. Some were good woodworkers or were into other hobbies, some did sports, some taught classes. Oh, a few wrote code [I do], but not that many. Don't get me wrong: Side projects can be an interesting window into how a candidate works and thinks. But if you use them as a hard requirement then I'm pretty sure you're missing out on some great talent.
pfarnsworth 9y ago
Side projects are the "White privilege" equivalent of developer culture. The only ones who can do them are young, super-passionate programmers who have a lot of time on their hands. If you have a passionate social life, external interests besides coding, or a family, your time and energy are severely limited. I never, ever ask for side projects because it biases for younger programmers with lots of time and against all others.
- lsadam0 9y ago
  They simply show a desire to learn. Too many devs are happy to reach a comfortable level and coast forever there. I’m sorry, but side projects, especially simple ones, have been a great hiring metric.

rco8786 9y ago

I hate the side projects trope. I’ve worked with tons of great engineers who have lives outside of code.

shados 9y ago
You can absolutely be good without side projects. And there are a lot of ways to be useful as a software engineer. But all other things being equal, when looking at code, it literally comes down to practice. The more code you've written, the more things you've had to research and the more mistakes you've already made, the faster you'll be able to produce good code in the future. Side projects help that aspect. Because there's only so much you can do and learn during your day job. You can always make up for it with other skills, experience, or just the difficulty level of the projects you've been on and nail the job anyway. Side projects help people who DON'T have all of that nail jobs. They can go "Look, I may not have worked for Google, or I may be only a few years out of school (if I ever went to school), but I made up for it with these projects". And of course, you can always have both :)
mlevental 9y ago
you know what i hate? recklessly divisive rhetoric. a life out of code and side-projects: the two things are not mutually exclusive. op isn't suggested he expects candidates to have written an os kernel. all op says is he/she looks for side-projects. if you were really interested in discussing the matter you would've asked some exploratory questions (e.g. what is the threshold for substantial side-project). then you would've really had an interesting conversation (because it is possible to have a life outside of programming and still be interested/engaged enough to have a couple of small side projects. and it's completely fair to expect engineers to get extra training. many many many other professions have exactly the same requirements. doctors/dentists have to regularly get re-tested on certain skills/attend conferences/etc.). but no instead you with the one-liner. try just a little harder and maybe you'll actually change someone's mind that's blindly obsessed with side-projects.
- rco8786 9y ago
  I seemed to have hit a nerve with you. Sorry if my comment offended you. I have no interest in actually discussing what constitutes a side project and what doesn’t. Let me more clearly articulate my point: Side projects have no bearing on the quality of an engineer.
  - lsadam0 9y ago
    But quality side projects are quite helpful in identifying a valuable engineer. A lack of them is not a warning sign either.
nip 9y ago
These are not mutually exclusive. I have a life and work on side projects at the same time. I started the latest one during a 1 week transition between jobs. I was able to work full time on it while my SO was working. Since then, I have been working between 0 and 10h each weekends. I usually only read (both code related and general litterature) during week days. It’s entirely possible, just requires a bit of organisation.

JustSomeNobody 9y ago

I've loved to code since I learned how on my C=64. I don't have a github full of side projects. The code I write at home is one off stuff for learning and keeping up, not some rehash of "twitter in a weekend". Some company that doesn't want me because I don't have side projects, that's fine, they saved me the trouble.

eropple 9y ago
This feels reductive. Why do side projects have to be "Twitter in a weekend"? My current side project is a Rack framework for making OpenAPI3-first APIs. "It's certainly not Twitter in a weekend." I learned Swagger/OpenAPI 2.0, so I used grape-swagger; found it frustrating and limited to OpenAPI 2.0 so now I'm using OpenAPI 3.0 and writing `Modern` to properly embed my understanding of it. If I were looking for a job (I'm not), I would fully expect that this speaks to my understanding of and my comfort with designing and implementing good APIs.
lsadam0 9y ago
Why not just put all of this learning code online? A side project doesn’t have to be Twitter in a weekend.
- JustSomeNobody 9y ago
  Because cleaning it up would waste time I could be spending learning other things, and I don't want people looking at it to think I code like this when I'm getting paid to do it.
  - lsadam0 9y ago
    Just from my point of view: Code that is a bit on the messy side is perfectly fine if the qualification of "This is a learning exercise" is attached.

kabdib 9y ago

Side projects are not a reliable metric. I have worked with fantastic developers -- ones who I'd love to work with again -- who did not do side projects. These were generally people who did really great work while using normal hours, but who would put in the hours when necessary, such as during a deadline push. Often their organizational skills and general engineering hygiene helped keep the crazy hours at bay. At night these people went home to their families and led their lives. Some were good woodworkers or were into other hobbies, some did sports, some taught classes. Oh, a few wrote code [I do], but not that many. Don't get me wrong: Side projects can be an interesting window into how a candidate works and thinks. But if you use them as a hard requirement then I'm pretty sure you're missing out on some great talent.

pfarnsworth 9y ago

Side projects are the "White privilege" equivalent of developer culture. The only ones who can do them are young, super-passionate programmers who have a lot of time on their hands. If you have a passionate social life, external interests besides coding, or a family, your time and energy are severely limited. I never, ever ask for side projects because it biases for younger programmers with lots of time and against all others.

lsadam0 9y ago
They simply show a desire to learn. Too many devs are happy to reach a comfortable level and coast forever there. I’m sorry, but side projects, especially simple ones, have been a great hiring metric.