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> Aircraft, even private aircraft, are tracked and recorded. Why should automobiles be any different? FAA and NTSB agencies aren't known for abuses of power. L

> Aircraft, even private aircraft, are tracked and recorded. Why should automobiles be any different? FAA and NTSB agencies aren't known for abuses of power. Local law enforcement, on the other hand, routinely abuse power (civil forfeiture, unwarranted traffic stops, racial profiling, police brutality, falsifying evidence, lying under oath, illegal search and seizure...). Self driving cars should reduce accidents, because computers > monkey brains, so granting the police unrestricted access to data shouldn't impact safety improvements.

konschubert 9y ago
> Local law enforcement, on the other hand, routinely abuse power I guess here is the real problem. I think it's better to go after the real problem instead of trying to work around it.
- confounded 9y ago
  Couldn’t you make the same argument about total surveillance? Or, say, forced labor for the entire population. If people experience negative feelings while imprisoned, then maybe we should work on the real problem of those feelings, not challenge the nice neutral forced labor concept. My point is that power over ordinary people generally corrupts, and the only real solution is to reduce and distribute that power so that individuals have more autonomy. Mass surveillance from AVs is a direct threat to your human autonomy.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- mLuby 9y ago
  I'd agree with you, except that the surveillors are themselves immune to surveillance, so it's very difficult for us to ensure they do not abuse power. Either let us watch the watchers, or don't let them watch.
wwweston 9y ago
> FAA and NTSB agencies aren't known for abuses of power. That suggests one possibility would be to separate law enforcement agencies responsible for the management of automotive violations from law enforcement agencies for everything else. Highway patrol + DMV enforcement arm for registration, safety, and moving violations. Normal police only have jurisdiction for vehicle stops for things like stolen vehicles or reckless endangerment. Might solve a bunch of other civil liberty issues.

konschubert 9y ago

> Local law enforcement, on the other hand, routinely abuse power I guess here is the real problem. I think it's better to go after the real problem instead of trying to work around it.

confounded 9y ago
Couldn’t you make the same argument about total surveillance? Or, say, forced labor for the entire population. If people experience negative feelings while imprisoned, then maybe we should work on the real problem of those feelings, not challenge the nice neutral forced labor concept. My point is that power over ordinary people generally corrupts, and the only real solution is to reduce and distribute that power so that individuals have more autonomy. Mass surveillance from AVs is a direct threat to your human autonomy.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
mLuby 9y ago
I'd agree with you, except that the surveillors are themselves immune to surveillance, so it's very difficult for us to ensure they do not abuse power. Either let us watch the watchers, or don't let them watch.

wwweston 9y ago

> FAA and NTSB agencies aren't known for abuses of power. That suggests one possibility would be to separate law enforcement agencies responsible for the management of automotive violations from law enforcement agencies for everything else. Highway patrol + DMV enforcement arm for registration, safety, and moving violations. Normal police only have jurisdiction for vehicle stops for things like stolen vehicles or reckless endangerment. Might solve a bunch of other civil liberty issues.