5 ms·

The most significant to me is that all the death destruction and suffering was all to further enrich some 5ish rich dudes. It is significant because this aspec

by hokus 9y ago

The most significant to me is that all the death destruction and suffering was all to further enrich some 5ish rich dudes. It is significant because this aspect of the west has not changed at all. Just look how our historians are happy to attribute such acts to countries(!???) Until we start attributing invasions to the people who wanted them, those who organized them and those who profited from them this wont change. Its at best inaccurate to state Britain wanted the war, Britain organized it and Britain profited. At worst it is the very formula to keep at it.

fredley 9y ago
I wonder how many rich dudes are at the top of the opiate pyramid in the US at the moment, profiting from the current crisis. It's not an attitude I've come across before—attributing these actions to individuals rather than nations. It's certainly an interesting one.
- njarboe 9y ago
  I certainly have heard many people blame the Iraq war on Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Powell. Seems to me that the thesis is basically correct.
- radicaldreamer 9y ago
  The attention economy is similar, with a small number of rich dudes at the top and vast addiction at the base.
- gregpilling 9y ago
  http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a12775932/sackler-family-oxycontin/ http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a12775932/sackler-famil... This family is at the top of the opiate pyramid.
  - throwawayopium 9y ago
    I dated a girl whose mother cleaned their house. They had wealth I'd never seen before. Their house was massive. Like the basement was larger than any home I'd ever been in. I was told he was a hospital administrator. But actually he was just a drug pusher. Which makes so much more sense now looking back at the level of wealth.
  - yakitori 9y ago
    It's amazing how these greedy people destroyed millions of lives and they get to live the life of luxury. Sell weed and you are a felon. Peddle addictive opiates to the masses and destroy countless families, you get to be a billionaire.
    - mmjaa 9y ago
      Drugs have been weaponised in the West. Both 'legal' and 'illegal' forms. Drugs are one of the principle means of social control used by the power elite to keep society malleable and repressed - truly. Both illegal - and legal - drugs have their covert uses in this regard.
cd9000 9y ago
>this aspect of the west Since we're at it, can we stop this China vs West thingy, as if the world was binary, as if the only relevant comparison was between those two? I dunno what you mean by West, but you're probably thinking of anglo-saxon countries, in particular the UK and the USA. What you're talking about doesn't apply to other countries that would qualify as western (e.g. Greece, Slovenia, Portugal, maybe some parts of Latinamerica). Besides, most of the world isn't either China (or East Asia if you will) or the West (What's India, Bangladesh, Russia, Africa, etc?). Let's please just stop, the world has more shades than that :-)
chewz 9y ago
I recommend reading Opium Wars by Julia Lovell. [1] To answer your question - main lobbyst behind first Opium War was Scottish opium trader James Matheson [2]. The fortune he had made on selling opium to China had been invested in Rio Tinto[3] - mining company that survived till today. [1]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12147002-the-opium-war https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12147002-the-opium-war [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Matheson https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Matheson [3]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Matheson_(industrialist) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Matheson_(industrialist...
scottlocklin 9y ago
Bill Browder comes to mind.
yakitori 9y ago
> The most significant to me is that all the death destruction and suffering was all to further enrich some 5ish rich dudes. The opium wars were about more than enriching 5ish rich dudes. It was about transferring a significant amount of wealth from china to the west ( primarily britain and the US ). The british and particularly the US industrial revolution was funded by capital extracted from china. The opium wars and the aftermath is easily the greatest theft in human history. It completely changed the west and gave the west a significant leg up vis a vis china and the east. And it set china back 150 years. Nearly 200 years on, china still hasn't recovered from it. > Just look how our historians are happy to attribute such acts to countries(!???) All wars are fought for wealth. But the wealthy don't hire historians to out them. Historians are hired to spin a fable. It's why every nations histories of the same event are so different. Historians of each country have to spin a tale that is suitable and furthers the interests of their elites. It's why we are told that the american revolution was about "freedom and liberty" when it was about our desire to steal more native land. It's why everything from the civil war to ww2 to vietnam are spun into some fairy tale about slavery, nazism or the domino theory when those wars were solely about one thing - wealth. If you want to study real history, you have to understand who stands to gain and who stands to lose.
arunc 9y ago
I had exactly the same thought and you have said it very well.

by hokus 9y ago

fredley 9y ago

I wonder how many rich dudes are at the top of the opiate pyramid in the US at the moment, profiting from the current crisis. It's not an attitude I've come across before—attributing these actions to individuals rather than nations. It's certainly an interesting one.

njarboe 9y ago
I certainly have heard many people blame the Iraq war on Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Powell. Seems to me that the thesis is basically correct.
radicaldreamer 9y ago
The attention economy is similar, with a small number of rich dudes at the top and vast addiction at the base.
gregpilling 9y ago
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a12775932/sackler-family-oxycontin/ http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a12775932/sackler-famil... This family is at the top of the opiate pyramid.
- throwawayopium 9y ago
  I dated a girl whose mother cleaned their house. They had wealth I'd never seen before. Their house was massive. Like the basement was larger than any home I'd ever been in. I was told he was a hospital administrator. But actually he was just a drug pusher. Which makes so much more sense now looking back at the level of wealth.
- yakitori 9y ago
  It's amazing how these greedy people destroyed millions of lives and they get to live the life of luxury. Sell weed and you are a felon. Peddle addictive opiates to the masses and destroy countless families, you get to be a billionaire.
  - mmjaa 9y ago
    Drugs have been weaponised in the West. Both 'legal' and 'illegal' forms. Drugs are one of the principle means of social control used by the power elite to keep society malleable and repressed - truly. Both illegal - and legal - drugs have their covert uses in this regard.

cd9000 9y ago

>this aspect of the west Since we're at it, can we stop this China vs West thingy, as if the world was binary, as if the only relevant comparison was between those two? I dunno what you mean by West, but you're probably thinking of anglo-saxon countries, in particular the UK and the USA. What you're talking about doesn't apply to other countries that would qualify as western (e.g. Greece, Slovenia, Portugal, maybe some parts of Latinamerica). Besides, most of the world isn't either China (or East Asia if you will) or the West (What's India, Bangladesh, Russia, Africa, etc?). Let's please just stop, the world has more shades than that :-)

chewz 9y ago

I recommend reading Opium Wars by Julia Lovell. [1] To answer your question - main lobbyst behind first Opium War was Scottish opium trader James Matheson [2]. The fortune he had made on selling opium to China had been invested in Rio Tinto[3] - mining company that survived till today. [1]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12147002-the-opium-war https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12147002-the-opium-war [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Matheson https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Matheson [3]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Matheson_(industrialist) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Matheson_(industrialist...

scottlocklin 9y ago

Bill Browder comes to mind.

yakitori 9y ago

> The most significant to me is that all the death destruction and suffering was all to further enrich some 5ish rich dudes. The opium wars were about more than enriching 5ish rich dudes. It was about transferring a significant amount of wealth from china to the west ( primarily britain and the US ). The british and particularly the US industrial revolution was funded by capital extracted from china. The opium wars and the aftermath is easily the greatest theft in human history. It completely changed the west and gave the west a significant leg up vis a vis china and the east. And it set china back 150 years. Nearly 200 years on, china still hasn't recovered from it. > Just look how our historians are happy to attribute such acts to countries(!???) All wars are fought for wealth. But the wealthy don't hire historians to out them. Historians are hired to spin a fable. It's why every nations histories of the same event are so different. Historians of each country have to spin a tale that is suitable and furthers the interests of their elites. It's why we are told that the american revolution was about "freedom and liberty" when it was about our desire to steal more native land. It's why everything from the civil war to ww2 to vietnam are spun into some fairy tale about slavery, nazism or the domino theory when those wars were solely about one thing - wealth. If you want to study real history, you have to understand who stands to gain and who stands to lose.

arunc 9y ago

I had exactly the same thought and you have said it very well.