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It does say in the article that AdSense and Analytics is on the blocklist.

by d2wa 9y ago

jasode 9y ago
That article's sentence that you're pointing to does not explicitly address the specific whitelist scenario I laid out. The article's sentence: "Google appears to be shipping the entirety of EasyList and EasyPrivacy; which includes blocking rules for Google’s own AdSense and DoubleClick advertisement platforms as well as Google Analytics," ... is only talking about the existence of AdSense on EasyList -- because the entirety of EasyList entries is shipped. It does not talk about (or even speculate) whether Chrome will have a programming code that implements a whitelist to ignore certain entries. Those are 2 different concepts.
- ec109685 9y ago
  The article states google will block _every_ ad on websites that violate the standard, which means google’s own ads as well.
  - jasode 9y ago
    There are only ~1000 words in that article. Is this the sentence you're referring to? >The Better Ads Standards are a set of rules, one set for desktop and one for mobile, that define unacceptably intrusive, distracting, and annoying advertisement formats. If so, "Better Ad Standards" is orthogonal to "AdSense standards". Or put another way, "unacceptably intrusive, distracting, and annoying" is orthogonal to blocking "AdSense" url _domains_. E.g. See layout rules from AdSense guidelines.[2] Why are we parsing the text differently? Are we talking about 2 different abstraction levels? I'm talking about EasyList as a network traffic filter. Maybe others are talking about EasyList as a rule source for _rendering_ DOM elements. (E.g. if AdSense is rendered in an intrusive popup overlay which already violates Google's rules and wil get AdSense accounts banned even before "Better Ads Standards" was adopted.) These are 2 different concepts. Let's not over-read things in the article that are not actually there. [1] https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/1282097?hl=en https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/1282097?hl=en
    - ec109685 9y ago
      > Starting on February 15, in line with the Coalition's guidelines, Chrome will remove all ads from sites that have a "failing" status in the Ad Experience Report for more than 30 days. All of this information can be found in the Ad Experience Report Help Center, and our product forums are available to help address any questions or feedback. It could not be more clear all ads will be removed from failing sites. https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2017/12/better-ads https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2017/12/better-ads
      - jasode 9y ago
        >"from failing sites." Again, I wasn't talking about "failing _websites_". I was talking about ad serving _domains_. You've lost track of what the conversation was about and the substance of what I was responding to. Please re-read the previous post to reset.[1] That post by d2wa was claiming a direct cause-&-effect blocking based purely on entries in EasyList. I replied that the article makes no such irrefutable claim and that he was over-reading something that wasn't there. You, on the other hand, are talking about "Better Ad Standards"[2] which is orthogonal to my reply to d2wa. Your repeated citation of it actually muddles the topic because the Google's longstanding approved rules for the correct layout of AdSense already adheres to "Better Ad Standards". To restate the different conversations in pseudo-code... Argument by d2wa: if (EasyList_entry_exists("AdSense")) block(); Argument by you (ec109685): BetterAdStandardsViolation = popup || autoplaysound || prestitialcountdown || largesticky; if (BetterAdStandardsViolation) block(); Also see comment subtree[3] from Raymond Hill (uBlock maintainer that uses EasyList). Based on that, the pseudo-code would be: if (BetterAdStandardsViolation) { if (EasyList_entry_exists) block(); // this line of code unreachable by correct use of AdSense } In summary... EasyList is not the final authority on blocking AdSense. Since Google's existing guidelines for proper AdSense layout already complies with "Coalition for Better Ads", the existence of AdSense in EasyList is not relevant because the EasyList filter is selectively applied to failing websites. In other words, Chrome's ad blocker will not block AdSense the same way as uBlock. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16297718 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16297718 [2] https://www.betterads.org/standards/ https://www.betterads.org/standards/ [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16298182 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16298182

It does say in the article that AdSense and Analytics is on the blocklist.

by d2wa 9y ago

It does say in the article that AdSense and Analytics is on the blocklist.

That article's sentence that you're pointing to does not explicitly address the specific whitelist scenario I laid out. The article's sentence: "Google appears to be shipping the entirety of EasyList and EasyPrivacy; which includes blocking rules for Google’s own AdSense and DoubleClick advertisement platforms as well as Google Analytics," ... is only talking about the existence of AdSense on EasyList -- because the entirety of EasyList entries is shipped. It does not talk about (or even speculate) whether Chrome will have a programming code that implements a whitelist to ignore certain entries. Those are 2 different concepts.

ec109685 9y ago
The article states google will block _every_ ad on websites that violate the standard, which means google’s own ads as well.
- jasode 9y ago
  There are only ~1000 words in that article. Is this the sentence you're referring to? >The Better Ads Standards are a set of rules, one set for desktop and one for mobile, that define unacceptably intrusive, distracting, and annoying advertisement formats. If so, "Better Ad Standards" is orthogonal to "AdSense standards". Or put another way, "unacceptably intrusive, distracting, and annoying" is orthogonal to blocking "AdSense" url _domains_. E.g. See layout rules from AdSense guidelines.[2] Why are we parsing the text differently? Are we talking about 2 different abstraction levels? I'm talking about EasyList as a network traffic filter. Maybe others are talking about EasyList as a rule source for _rendering_ DOM elements. (E.g. if AdSense is rendered in an intrusive popup overlay which already violates Google's rules and wil get AdSense accounts banned even before "Better Ads Standards" was adopted.) These are 2 different concepts. Let's not over-read things in the article that are not actually there. [1] https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/1282097?hl=en https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/1282097?hl=en
  - ec109685 9y ago
    > Starting on February 15, in line with the Coalition's guidelines, Chrome will remove all ads from sites that have a "failing" status in the Ad Experience Report for more than 30 days. All of this information can be found in the Ad Experience Report Help Center, and our product forums are available to help address any questions or feedback. It could not be more clear all ads will be removed from failing sites. https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2017/12/better-ads https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2017/12/better-ads
    - jasode 9y ago
      >"from failing sites." Again, I wasn't talking about "failing _websites_". I was talking about ad serving _domains_. You've lost track of what the conversation was about and the substance of what I was responding to. Please re-read the previous post to reset.[1] That post by d2wa was claiming a direct cause-&-effect blocking based purely on entries in EasyList. I replied that the article makes no such irrefutable claim and that he was over-reading something that wasn't there. You, on the other hand, are talking about "Better Ad Standards"[2] which is orthogonal to my reply to d2wa. Your repeated citation of it actually muddles the topic because the Google's longstanding approved rules for the correct layout of AdSense already adheres to "Better Ad Standards". To restate the different conversations in pseudo-code... Argument by d2wa: if (EasyList_entry_exists("AdSense")) block(); Argument by you (ec109685): BetterAdStandardsViolation = popup || autoplaysound || prestitialcountdown || largesticky; if (BetterAdStandardsViolation) block(); Also see comment subtree[3] from Raymond Hill (uBlock maintainer that uses EasyList). Based on that, the pseudo-code would be: if (BetterAdStandardsViolation) { if (EasyList_entry_exists) block(); // this line of code unreachable by correct use of AdSense } In summary... EasyList is not the final authority on blocking AdSense. Since Google's existing guidelines for proper AdSense layout already complies with "Coalition for Better Ads", the existence of AdSense in EasyList is not relevant because the EasyList filter is selectively applied to failing websites. In other words, Chrome's ad blocker will not block AdSense the same way as uBlock. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16297718 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16297718 [2] https://www.betterads.org/standards/ https://www.betterads.org/standards/ [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16298182 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16298182