8 ms·

I've been long-term traveling and running my startup at the same time for the past few years (in fact just today I set up an incomplete map of my travels for th

by acabal 16y ago

I've been long-term traveling and running my startup at the same time for the past few years (in fact just today I set up an incomplete map of my travels for the past few months at my site, turkeysandwichindustries.com), and I can attest that everything in this article is true. What makes me sad sometimes is that traveling the world for a few months to a year doesn't even cross the minds of many of my fellow Americans. But doing just that is extremely common for almost any other wealthy country. The number of Americans I meet in a place can be counted on one hand; the number of English, Australians, Kiwis, Germans, etc. etc. are always huge. After some thought, I think it comes down to the fear that's being slowly baked in to our culture. People (and I mean Americans) are afraid of what happens if they don't work, of finding a new job when they come back, of insurance, of germs and war in foreign countries, of insanely improbable disaster striking, of getting lost, of running out of money, of bed bugs, of missing friends and family, of anything. Some of these are valid worries; most aren't. Having grown up in just such a fear-based culture (and having a worrier gene run in the family), I struggle against those fears myself every day. It isn't easy. But the most important thing that traveling has taught me is this: that everything will be OK. You can be out of a job, get a terrible injury (I myself had an accident requiring surgery while in New Zealand), get lost, miss your flight, have your wallet stolen, lose your passport, or worse, and... everything will be OK. Your family will be there for you, your friends will be there for you, other travelers you've met will be there for you, the locals will be there for you. You'll find a job when you get back, and your old friends won't have forgotten you. As long as you've got the will and the spirit, everything will work out. So get out there. See the world. It's a beautiful, fascinating, scary, wondrous place. Don't be afraid of taking a year off. Everything will be OK, and it will make you a smarter, more even-headed, tolerant, and curious person. And you'll make friends from all over the world that you can visit on your next big trip.

euroclydon 16y ago
Sounds good. If the mortgage payment and health insurance were going to be "OK" too, I would already be out there.
- acabal 16y ago
  Well, if you have a family and a mortgage, then your responsibilities are to them, not to indulge yourself in a year off. But my point is that many Americans who have the opportunity and position to do this kind of traveling still don't seem to do it. And if one has a mortgage but no family responsibilities, then things can almost certainly be arranged to be rid of the house, or rent it out temporarily, etc. to make this kind of travel possible. But often that fear comes back: what if I sold it too low, what if I can't find another house, where will I put my belongings, what if in 30 years when I retire I wish I had kept the house, etc. etc. Being an American who reads this board means one is probably at a certain station in society where these things are possible. Regardless of what one does or doesn't do with their life, in 30 years you'll still be alive, probably with a roof over your head, probably with enough food to eat tomorrow, probably with some sort of job, and probably with friends and family who love you. Long-term travel is just another choice, and if you choose it, things will be still be OK.
  - euroclydon 16y ago
    I hear ya, but I'm surprised you haven't mentioned the more robust social safety nets that exists in the other countries you've mentioned. It's almost there between every line you write. I think that the U.S., despite the existence of Social Security and Medicare, is more like China than a northern European country. We have a dog-eat-dog social structure and economy. One of the only reasons we have such a high standard of living is Brenton-Woods and it's subsequent replacement system, which heavily favors the U.S. because T-Bills are the most liquid place for the world to park their cash. So my point is: Sure, some of American's fear of extended foreign travel may be driven by unreasonable fear, but I'll bet a lot of it is driven by reasonable fear -- the fear of falling behind and not being able to catch up.
    - acabal 16y ago
      Yes, but to catch up to whom? Your neighbor with the bigger house and fancier car? People who play games of catch-up are never winners. This is exactly the kind of fear I think is _un_reasonable, and that holds us back from doing things like this, things we often claim we want to do but excuse as being "out of reach." I think the truth is that taking just one year off (if it's within one's immediate means) will not set you back in the 30+ years you have left to you. One can save up with a trip in mind, quit their job, travel and return, and the world will still have turned, and for the most part, one can pick up where they left off. Maybe you'll be a rung or two down on the corporate ladder, but a resourceful and willing person (like those on these boards) will always make it happen for themselves. As for social safety nets, I'm a born and raised American who works for himself and is uninsured (self-employed with pre-existing conditions). That hasn't stopped me from travel. If medical tragedy were to strike, I have money saved, my family would help support me, or worst-case is credit cards and medical bankruptcy. As I mentioned tragedy _has_ struck me while traveling: I was in an accident in NZ that required surgery, hospital time, and two months of physical therapy. Life goes on. That's just the ball game we play in America, but it doesn't mean (healthy) people should sit at home for fear of breaking a bone in a foreign country. Anyway sorry to expostulate for so long on the topic, but it's one that's near and dear to my heart. Hopefully something of what's in this thread will inspire others to see the world while they can.
lotusleaf1987 16y ago
Not everyone can afford it, otherwise a lot more people would. Germans, Kiwis, the English, and Australians probably also generally have more secure employment and higher wages on average.
- acabal 16y ago
  From what I understand, wages and jobs are about even, given that Germans, Kiwis, English, and Australian pay much more tax than we do. Kiwis and Aussies do get more time off, but only a few weeks more than us; many take a year off to travel anyway. Come to England or Germany and talk to the locals who feel that outsourcing and foreigners are taking their jobs away; I met a Swedish person just yesterday who was talking about how it would take at least 2 months for him to secure a new job as a seasoned mechanical engineer, because since it's so hard to fire people there, it's super hard to get hired. We have it amazingly good here in America, for a lot of things. Travel is surprisingly cheap, provided you don't spend your time in 5-star hotels. This month in Belgium will cost me about 850 euros including food and rent, which isn't too far off from living with a roommate in Los Angeles, my previous home. Go to Vietnam and you'll live like a king on $500/month. Oftentimes the most expensive part of the trip is the plane ticket. Of course still not everyone can afford to do this; but if you can, then you'll find that doing so will be a landmark in your life, even if it seemed very scary at first.
  - loewenskind 16y ago
    >given that Germans, Kiwis, English, and Australian pay much more tax than we do They pay more taxes but get more for their taxes (free health care, education, more unemployment protection, etc.). >who was talking about how it would take at least 2 months for him to secure a new job as a seasoned mechanical engineer, because since it's so hard to fire people there, it's super hard to get hired. But being unemployed in Sweden for two months is a completely different world to being unemployed in the US. Further, if he's working then he'll have a 2 month notice period anyway, so he probably wont have any time off at all. One thing is not fundamentally better than the other. They are just trade offs. Personally I find the Swedish one a hell of a lot less stressful in bad times.
- 16y ago
benologist 16y ago
+1. I've been out of my country for the last 5 years seeing the world. I build my startup in a little house in a little country in latin america.
michael_scheibe 16y ago
Yes, the proportion of US residents traveling overseas is probably lower than other developed nations. UK residents for example made 47 million[1] air trips in 2009 vs. 39 million[2] for US citizens. However the argument that fear is the primary cause is misguided. Consider: 1. If you live in the UK and you want sunny weather or a ski trip, you'll need to go elsewhere in Europe. If you live in the US, you can probably get away with a local flight. 2. It's easier to justify and amortize the time to travel to a far-off destination for Europeans who have double the number of vacation days. South Africa is a 22-30 hour trip from the US, the number of US tourists is on the low end[3]#, while US tourists to Brazil are 2nd only to tourists from neighboring Argentina[4]. [1] http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_transport/travel-trends09.pdf http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_transport/trave... p. 90 [2] http://www.tinet.ita.doc.gov/view/m-2009-O-001/index.html http://www.tinet.ita.doc.gov/view/m-2009-O-001/index.html [3] http://www.southafrica.net/sat/action/media/downloadFile?media_fileid=28939 http://www.southafrica.net/sat/action/media/downloadFile?med... [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Brazil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Brazil # Anecdotally, I notice more North American tourists in Cape Town than other nationalities, although this may have more to do with the volume of the average American voice.
- stoney 16y ago
  Your first point is a big one - the US has an incredible variety of places to visit. I'm from the UK, and while there are some amazing places to visit in the UK, there is a lot less variety than there is in the US. I spend 10 days driving from Denver to Vegas and saw far more scenery than I ever have in the UK. If I lived in the US I could easily imagine not leaving it for years (when I lived in the UK I'd go abroad at least twice a year).
  - CaptainDecisive 16y ago
    Maybe. You're doing the UK a bit of a disservice. You're right that there's lots of nice scenery and the place is littered with castles and ruins. I'm a Kiwi who moved to Edinburgh and even after 5 years here I still love catching site of the big you-can-fuck-right-off castle in the middle of town. I'm still discovering lots of cool things right on my doorstep too. New Zealand has plenty of amazing scenery and it's all within a rather small country too which makes it pretty easy to get to and see. But that doesn't stop hordes of young Kiwis heading off on their Big O.E. every year. Actually it's bit sad to meet some of the young Kiwis and find they haven't seen much of their own country before they spread their wings and head overseas.

by acabal 16y ago

euroclydon 16y ago

Sounds good. If the mortgage payment and health insurance were going to be "OK" too, I would already be out there.

acabal 16y ago
Well, if you have a family and a mortgage, then your responsibilities are to them, not to indulge yourself in a year off. But my point is that many Americans who have the opportunity and position to do this kind of traveling still don't seem to do it. And if one has a mortgage but no family responsibilities, then things can almost certainly be arranged to be rid of the house, or rent it out temporarily, etc. to make this kind of travel possible. But often that fear comes back: what if I sold it too low, what if I can't find another house, where will I put my belongings, what if in 30 years when I retire I wish I had kept the house, etc. etc. Being an American who reads this board means one is probably at a certain station in society where these things are possible. Regardless of what one does or doesn't do with their life, in 30 years you'll still be alive, probably with a roof over your head, probably with enough food to eat tomorrow, probably with some sort of job, and probably with friends and family who love you. Long-term travel is just another choice, and if you choose it, things will be still be OK.
- euroclydon 16y ago
  I hear ya, but I'm surprised you haven't mentioned the more robust social safety nets that exists in the other countries you've mentioned. It's almost there between every line you write. I think that the U.S., despite the existence of Social Security and Medicare, is more like China than a northern European country. We have a dog-eat-dog social structure and economy. One of the only reasons we have such a high standard of living is Brenton-Woods and it's subsequent replacement system, which heavily favors the U.S. because T-Bills are the most liquid place for the world to park their cash. So my point is: Sure, some of American's fear of extended foreign travel may be driven by unreasonable fear, but I'll bet a lot of it is driven by reasonable fear -- the fear of falling behind and not being able to catch up.
  - acabal 16y ago
    Yes, but to catch up to whom? Your neighbor with the bigger house and fancier car? People who play games of catch-up are never winners. This is exactly the kind of fear I think is _un_reasonable, and that holds us back from doing things like this, things we often claim we want to do but excuse as being "out of reach." I think the truth is that taking just one year off (if it's within one's immediate means) will not set you back in the 30+ years you have left to you. One can save up with a trip in mind, quit their job, travel and return, and the world will still have turned, and for the most part, one can pick up where they left off. Maybe you'll be a rung or two down on the corporate ladder, but a resourceful and willing person (like those on these boards) will always make it happen for themselves. As for social safety nets, I'm a born and raised American who works for himself and is uninsured (self-employed with pre-existing conditions). That hasn't stopped me from travel. If medical tragedy were to strike, I have money saved, my family would help support me, or worst-case is credit cards and medical bankruptcy. As I mentioned tragedy _has_ struck me while traveling: I was in an accident in NZ that required surgery, hospital time, and two months of physical therapy. Life goes on. That's just the ball game we play in America, but it doesn't mean (healthy) people should sit at home for fear of breaking a bone in a foreign country. Anyway sorry to expostulate for so long on the topic, but it's one that's near and dear to my heart. Hopefully something of what's in this thread will inspire others to see the world while they can.

lotusleaf1987 16y ago

Not everyone can afford it, otherwise a lot more people would. Germans, Kiwis, the English, and Australians probably also generally have more secure employment and higher wages on average.

acabal 16y ago
From what I understand, wages and jobs are about even, given that Germans, Kiwis, English, and Australian pay much more tax than we do. Kiwis and Aussies do get more time off, but only a few weeks more than us; many take a year off to travel anyway. Come to England or Germany and talk to the locals who feel that outsourcing and foreigners are taking their jobs away; I met a Swedish person just yesterday who was talking about how it would take at least 2 months for him to secure a new job as a seasoned mechanical engineer, because since it's so hard to fire people there, it's super hard to get hired. We have it amazingly good here in America, for a lot of things. Travel is surprisingly cheap, provided you don't spend your time in 5-star hotels. This month in Belgium will cost me about 850 euros including food and rent, which isn't too far off from living with a roommate in Los Angeles, my previous home. Go to Vietnam and you'll live like a king on $500/month. Oftentimes the most expensive part of the trip is the plane ticket. Of course still not everyone can afford to do this; but if you can, then you'll find that doing so will be a landmark in your life, even if it seemed very scary at first.
- loewenskind 16y ago
  >given that Germans, Kiwis, English, and Australian pay much more tax than we do They pay more taxes but get more for their taxes (free health care, education, more unemployment protection, etc.). >who was talking about how it would take at least 2 months for him to secure a new job as a seasoned mechanical engineer, because since it's so hard to fire people there, it's super hard to get hired. But being unemployed in Sweden for two months is a completely different world to being unemployed in the US. Further, if he's working then he'll have a 2 month notice period anyway, so he probably wont have any time off at all. One thing is not fundamentally better than the other. They are just trade offs. Personally I find the Swedish one a hell of a lot less stressful in bad times.
16y ago

benologist 16y ago

+1. I've been out of my country for the last 5 years seeing the world. I build my startup in a little house in a little country in latin america.

michael_scheibe 16y ago

Yes, the proportion of US residents traveling overseas is probably lower than other developed nations. UK residents for example made 47 million[1] air trips in 2009 vs. 39 million[2] for US citizens. However the argument that fear is the primary cause is misguided. Consider: 1. If you live in the UK and you want sunny weather or a ski trip, you'll need to go elsewhere in Europe. If you live in the US, you can probably get away with a local flight. 2. It's easier to justify and amortize the time to travel to a far-off destination for Europeans who have double the number of vacation days. South Africa is a 22-30 hour trip from the US, the number of US tourists is on the low end[3]#, while US tourists to Brazil are 2nd only to tourists from neighboring Argentina[4]. [1] http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_transport/travel-trends09.pdf http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_transport/trave... p. 90 [2] http://www.tinet.ita.doc.gov/view/m-2009-O-001/index.html http://www.tinet.ita.doc.gov/view/m-2009-O-001/index.html [3] http://www.southafrica.net/sat/action/media/downloadFile?media_fileid=28939 http://www.southafrica.net/sat/action/media/downloadFile?med... [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Brazil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Brazil # Anecdotally, I notice more North American tourists in Cape Town than other nationalities, although this may have more to do with the volume of the average American voice.

stoney 16y ago
Your first point is a big one - the US has an incredible variety of places to visit. I'm from the UK, and while there are some amazing places to visit in the UK, there is a lot less variety than there is in the US. I spend 10 days driving from Denver to Vegas and saw far more scenery than I ever have in the UK. If I lived in the US I could easily imagine not leaving it for years (when I lived in the UK I'd go abroad at least twice a year).
- CaptainDecisive 16y ago
  Maybe. You're doing the UK a bit of a disservice. You're right that there's lots of nice scenery and the place is littered with castles and ruins. I'm a Kiwi who moved to Edinburgh and even after 5 years here I still love catching site of the big you-can-fuck-right-off castle in the middle of town. I'm still discovering lots of cool things right on my doorstep too. New Zealand has plenty of amazing scenery and it's all within a rather small country too which makes it pretty easy to get to and see. But that doesn't stop hordes of young Kiwis heading off on their Big O.E. every year. Actually it's bit sad to meet some of the young Kiwis and find they haven't seen much of their own country before they spread their wings and head overseas.