5 ms·

This reminds me of the articles saying that germans like to use cash because of the inflation 100y ago. It's just not true and likely being written by someone w

This reminds me of the articles saying that germans like to use cash because of the inflation 100y ago. It's just not true and likely being written by someone who has never asked a single german/chinese.

garmaine 9y ago
On the other hand, having traveled extensively in Europe the Americas, and Asia, Germany does use cash far more than other countries even in Europe, although yes not to the extent cash is preferred in Asia.
- jotm 9y ago
  Getting a MasterCard or Visa was harder in Germany than it should've been. They're optional and cost extra, standard debit cards for a checking account are Cirrus/Maestro, which can't be used to pay online or abroad or in many places. It was easier to just use them to withdraw cash. Sparkasse for some reason gave me a MasterCard that had it's own account, so I had to transfer money from the checking account to the card if I wanted to use it. Maybe things have improved.
  - PuffinBlue 9y ago
    It's maybe more that shops/businesses didnt accept payment by much other than cash, bank transfer or ec card. Even national chains, until very recently, didnt accept credit cards.
    - wazoox 9y ago
      Yup, 2 years ago I went into a large chain store in Germany to buy a camera, no credit card accepted, in a place selling mostly expensive gear such as cameras, laptops, dishwashers... Boggled my mind. Fortunately I had enough cash this time.
      - rocqua 9y ago
        I'd be surprised if any place here in the Netherlands would take a credit card. We are fully used to debit cards. Essentially, credit cards are only needed here for travel and international purchases. Everyday stuff is all with debit cards, cash is unusual.
    - mcguire 9y ago
      That would make sense, following hyperinflation.
    - def- 9y ago
      > Even national chains, until very recently, didnt accept credit cards. Some still don't and don't plan to.
  - FabHK 9y ago
    There's a well developed banking system that allows for fast, cheap, and easy transfer, standing orders, and direct debit. Checks fell out of favour many decades ago, unlike in some more, well, traditional societies. There was the "ec-card", then Cirrus/Maestro debit cards, now cash card, which allow for cheap immediate cashless payment. Why would one want to let a large part of the economy run through oligopolistic credit card providers, just to let them skim some 2% or 3% off it? It's absurd, if you think about it.
    - barrkel 9y ago
      Debit card fees are closer to 0.3% to 0.5% or so, than 2% or 3%. See e.g. https://www.cardswitcher.co.uk/2016/05/uk-card-processing-fees-change-2016-2/ https://www.cardswitcher.co.uk/2016/05/uk-card-processing-fe... Of course in the UK fees have been "banned" a few weeks ago, which means everybody will get charged the fees via price increases, effectively subsidizing card users.
      - FabHK 9y ago
        Most merchants accepting credit card are not allowed to charge extra for credit card use (by the merchant agreement), thus card users have always been subsidised, with the difference being that credit cards do charge 2% to 3%. My point is that both cash and modern cashless payment systems (debit/cash cards) are way better than oligopolistic credit cards with their gaudy marketing and high fees.
  - freeflight 9y ago
    You just have to look for the right bank, I've been happy for a couple of years with DKB now. Debit card and Free Visa CC, worldwide cash withdrawal (with CC) without any charges or fees. > Sparkasse for some reason gave me a MasterCard that had it's own account, so I had to transfer money from the checking account to the card if I wanted to use it. That's afaik normal for Germany, prepaid CC are probably the only CC you gonna get without a girokonto.
thomasahle 9y ago
It doesn't seem unlikely that there could be cultural phenomenon rooted in events a hundred years ago. It wouldn't be easy to prove though, and most people affected wouldn't be aware, so asking people on the street would be worthless.
- FabHK 9y ago
  > It doesn't seem unlikely that there could be cultural phenomen[a] rooted in events a hundred years ago. Absolutely! 1. It's quite possible that Germans still have an aversion to inflation due to the 1920's episode of hyperinflation in the Weimarer Republik. My grandmother often spoke of it, she had vivid memories of it, as she was selling groceries in the local "Konsum", had to put up new price tags every hour, and saw the suffering of everyone (including her own family). She liked to recount how her "Volksschule" teacher (in a poor neighbourhood) taught them hundreds and thousands, and then briefly mentioned millions and billions, but glossed over them saying "You'll never have to use them anyway." (Thus, there are people alive, if I may make that claim for myself, that have heard (visceral) first-hand reports of it.) 2. There is this beautiful paper demonstrating that people have more trust in government and bureaucracy in areas that were part of the (long defunct) Habsburger Empire, even if they (and their counterparts on the other side of the old border) have now lived a century in the same modern country. "The Empire Is Dead, Long Live the Empire! Long-Run Persistence of Trust and Corruption in the Bureaucracy" http://ftp.iza.org/dp5584.pdf http://ftp.iza.org/dp5584.pdf 3. > > It's just not true and likely being written by someone who has never asked a single german/chinese. Many Germans or Chinese have some sort of consciousness of their history; maybe you haven't asked them. 4. And, by the way, you're also formed by your history (via the culture surrounding you) if you don't consciously notice it. Your statement above is as naive as that of people that claim not to be influenced by advertisement, say, or their biological roots, just because they don't notice it. EDIT: typo
  - foobarian 9y ago
    Thanks for that link. I find the Habsburg era fascinating. I remember my Croatian ancestors often lamenting the passing of the Empire, and Franz Josef's rule. They sure did leave us with a lot of good infrastructure: roads, buildings, railroad, etc. still in use today.
mcguire 9y ago
One would have thought you wouldn't want to use cash after inflation?
ajmurmann 9y ago
I'm German and hyperinflation is a very real fear of mine. Not even my parents actually experienced that and I've not lived in the country on a decade, but I've heard many stories about it growing up. Transgenerational trauma is a very real thing.
- germanier 9y ago
  I understand the fear (and it's often cited as a reason) but how does cash help with that? If it comes to a hyperinflation it will be worthless – this is exactly what happened last time.
  - hutzlibu 9y ago
    But before that there will be people trying to get cash out of the atm. And those who have cash already have a slight advantage, when there is no more cash at the atm because the bank went bankrupt. But apart from that, it is more a psychological thing, I guess. Cash you can hold in your hands, feels more safe than just some plastic card. So it is more about feeling, than real security I think. But there is also the privacy issue. Paying with cash is anonymous. This is still a big thing and maybe the more important factor why cash is more important in germany ...
- mmjaa 9y ago
  German still suffer under the 'war shock' that has reverberated through their culture for at least 3 generations.
appleiigs 9y ago
Or... Hong Kong was given back only in 1997 which still in living memory.
- DonaldFisk 9y ago
  Without asking its inhabitants whether that is what they wanted.
  - FooBarWidget 9y ago
    Why would that matter? Hong Kong was originally seceded to Britain without asking whether that was what the inhabitants wanted. Territory is a matter between states, not inhabitants.
    - DonaldFisk 9y ago
      Not according to the United Nations Charter. In international law, people have a right to self determination.
      - hutzlibu 9y ago
        But only if it suits the current (or stronger) power. Otherwise "territorial integrity" matters more unfortunately.
ams6110 9y ago
How does cash help you in hyperinflation? If anything, you'd want to buy on credit with the 30 day float. Buy today, pay next month with money that's worth less.

garmaine 9y ago

On the other hand, having traveled extensively in Europe the Americas, and Asia, Germany does use cash far more than other countries even in Europe, although yes not to the extent cash is preferred in Asia.

jotm 9y ago
Getting a MasterCard or Visa was harder in Germany than it should've been. They're optional and cost extra, standard debit cards for a checking account are Cirrus/Maestro, which can't be used to pay online or abroad or in many places. It was easier to just use them to withdraw cash. Sparkasse for some reason gave me a MasterCard that had it's own account, so I had to transfer money from the checking account to the card if I wanted to use it. Maybe things have improved.
- PuffinBlue 9y ago
  It's maybe more that shops/businesses didnt accept payment by much other than cash, bank transfer or ec card. Even national chains, until very recently, didnt accept credit cards.
  - wazoox 9y ago
    Yup, 2 years ago I went into a large chain store in Germany to buy a camera, no credit card accepted, in a place selling mostly expensive gear such as cameras, laptops, dishwashers... Boggled my mind. Fortunately I had enough cash this time.
    - rocqua 9y ago
      I'd be surprised if any place here in the Netherlands would take a credit card. We are fully used to debit cards. Essentially, credit cards are only needed here for travel and international purchases. Everyday stuff is all with debit cards, cash is unusual.
  - mcguire 9y ago
    That would make sense, following hyperinflation.
  - def- 9y ago
    > Even national chains, until very recently, didnt accept credit cards. Some still don't and don't plan to.
- FabHK 9y ago
  There's a well developed banking system that allows for fast, cheap, and easy transfer, standing orders, and direct debit. Checks fell out of favour many decades ago, unlike in some more, well, traditional societies. There was the "ec-card", then Cirrus/Maestro debit cards, now cash card, which allow for cheap immediate cashless payment. Why would one want to let a large part of the economy run through oligopolistic credit card providers, just to let them skim some 2% or 3% off it? It's absurd, if you think about it.
  - barrkel 9y ago
    Debit card fees are closer to 0.3% to 0.5% or so, than 2% or 3%. See e.g. https://www.cardswitcher.co.uk/2016/05/uk-card-processing-fees-change-2016-2/ https://www.cardswitcher.co.uk/2016/05/uk-card-processing-fe... Of course in the UK fees have been "banned" a few weeks ago, which means everybody will get charged the fees via price increases, effectively subsidizing card users.
    - FabHK 9y ago
      Most merchants accepting credit card are not allowed to charge extra for credit card use (by the merchant agreement), thus card users have always been subsidised, with the difference being that credit cards do charge 2% to 3%. My point is that both cash and modern cashless payment systems (debit/cash cards) are way better than oligopolistic credit cards with their gaudy marketing and high fees.
- freeflight 9y ago
  You just have to look for the right bank, I've been happy for a couple of years with DKB now. Debit card and Free Visa CC, worldwide cash withdrawal (with CC) without any charges or fees. > Sparkasse for some reason gave me a MasterCard that had it's own account, so I had to transfer money from the checking account to the card if I wanted to use it. That's afaik normal for Germany, prepaid CC are probably the only CC you gonna get without a girokonto.

thomasahle 9y ago

It doesn't seem unlikely that there could be cultural phenomenon rooted in events a hundred years ago. It wouldn't be easy to prove though, and most people affected wouldn't be aware, so asking people on the street would be worthless.

FabHK 9y ago
> It doesn't seem unlikely that there could be cultural phenomen[a] rooted in events a hundred years ago. Absolutely! 1. It's quite possible that Germans still have an aversion to inflation due to the 1920's episode of hyperinflation in the Weimarer Republik. My grandmother often spoke of it, she had vivid memories of it, as she was selling groceries in the local "Konsum", had to put up new price tags every hour, and saw the suffering of everyone (including her own family). She liked to recount how her "Volksschule" teacher (in a poor neighbourhood) taught them hundreds and thousands, and then briefly mentioned millions and billions, but glossed over them saying "You'll never have to use them anyway." (Thus, there are people alive, if I may make that claim for myself, that have heard (visceral) first-hand reports of it.) 2. There is this beautiful paper demonstrating that people have more trust in government and bureaucracy in areas that were part of the (long defunct) Habsburger Empire, even if they (and their counterparts on the other side of the old border) have now lived a century in the same modern country. "The Empire Is Dead, Long Live the Empire! Long-Run Persistence of Trust and Corruption in the Bureaucracy" http://ftp.iza.org/dp5584.pdf http://ftp.iza.org/dp5584.pdf 3. > > It's just not true and likely being written by someone who has never asked a single german/chinese. Many Germans or Chinese have some sort of consciousness of their history; maybe you haven't asked them. 4. And, by the way, you're also formed by your history (via the culture surrounding you) if you don't consciously notice it. Your statement above is as naive as that of people that claim not to be influenced by advertisement, say, or their biological roots, just because they don't notice it. EDIT: typo
- foobarian 9y ago
  Thanks for that link. I find the Habsburg era fascinating. I remember my Croatian ancestors often lamenting the passing of the Empire, and Franz Josef's rule. They sure did leave us with a lot of good infrastructure: roads, buildings, railroad, etc. still in use today.

mcguire 9y ago

One would have thought you wouldn't want to use cash after inflation?

ajmurmann 9y ago

I'm German and hyperinflation is a very real fear of mine. Not even my parents actually experienced that and I've not lived in the country on a decade, but I've heard many stories about it growing up. Transgenerational trauma is a very real thing.

germanier 9y ago
I understand the fear (and it's often cited as a reason) but how does cash help with that? If it comes to a hyperinflation it will be worthless – this is exactly what happened last time.
- hutzlibu 9y ago
  But before that there will be people trying to get cash out of the atm. And those who have cash already have a slight advantage, when there is no more cash at the atm because the bank went bankrupt. But apart from that, it is more a psychological thing, I guess. Cash you can hold in your hands, feels more safe than just some plastic card. So it is more about feeling, than real security I think. But there is also the privacy issue. Paying with cash is anonymous. This is still a big thing and maybe the more important factor why cash is more important in germany ...
mmjaa 9y ago
German still suffer under the 'war shock' that has reverberated through their culture for at least 3 generations.

appleiigs 9y ago

Or... Hong Kong was given back only in 1997 which still in living memory.

DonaldFisk 9y ago
Without asking its inhabitants whether that is what they wanted.
- FooBarWidget 9y ago
  Why would that matter? Hong Kong was originally seceded to Britain without asking whether that was what the inhabitants wanted. Territory is a matter between states, not inhabitants.
  - DonaldFisk 9y ago
    Not according to the United Nations Charter. In international law, people have a right to self determination.
    - hutzlibu 9y ago
      But only if it suits the current (or stronger) power. Otherwise "territorial integrity" matters more unfortunately.

ams6110 9y ago

How does cash help you in hyperinflation? If anything, you'd want to buy on credit with the 30 day float. Buy today, pay next month with money that's worth less.