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Yes, all those discussions dissolve once you use a precise definition, but there is no generally accepted one. The definition must apply to humans. It must not
by qznc 9y ago
Yes, all those discussions dissolve once you use a precise definition, but there is no generally accepted one.
The definition must apply to humans. It must not apply to rocks. It should probably not apply to plants, fungi, bacteria, and worms. It will probably apply to dolphins, dogs, and pigs. Will it apply to companies, robots, cities, ant swarms, chicken, or fish?
- uoaei 9y agoWhat scale of "rocks" are we talking about? I'm reminded of the xkcd comic about making a computer out of tons of rocks in the desert[1]. Sure, one rock is crystalline (enough) and has essentially no stimulus-processing power. But a pile of rocks, arranged just so, can be set up so as to respond to certain stimuli that, to an outside observer, seems like thought/consciousness. This is the Chinese room problem[2] recast. By approaching it in this way, we are forced to reconsider: what's so special about humans that makes how you define consciousness more applicable to them than a rock or plant? Why exclude rocks at all? I'm firmly in the camp that any attempt to quantify consciousness will necessarily be a matter of degree, with no system exhibiting zero consciousness except a perfect crystal (i.e., zero entropy). [1] https://www.xkcd.com/505/ https://www.xkcd.com/505/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room
- qznc 9y agoI agree in general, but a degree seems even harder than a binary condition?
- uoaei 9y agoSorry this is late, but check out Dr. Giulio Tononi's mathematical apparatus called Integrated Information Theory. In a nutshell, it considers a system and all the causal relations within it, measures some quantity related to the number of states that system can take, and then considers the graph cut that minimizes this quantity in the subsystems. The difference between the uncut and cut graphs gives a degree of "integrated information", which can be argued is a useful analogue or even the very definition of consciousness.
- simonwalton 9y agoThanks for the Chinese Room experiment link. I had never heard of it. I don’t suppposr anyone has any good book recommendations around this train of thought?