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Western civilization is based on merit and it is based on being very competitive. (It's true in your mates, your social standing, your financial situation, etc)

by monksy 9y ago

Western civilization is based on merit and it is based on being very competitive. (It's true in your mates, your social standing, your financial situation, etc) That's the reason for the improvement books.

protoplant 9y ago
Is it merit based? I would say it's capital based.
- monksy 9y ago
  Capital generally being a measure of how people evaluate you, yes.
vanillaboy 9y ago
Nope, take a look at Japanese audiobook stores e.g. https://www.febe.jp/ https://www.febe.jp/, they're chock-full of self-improvement garbage. In fact out of 5 new books that come out 3-4 are of the "Get People to Like You in 10 Simple Steps" type.
BoiledCabbage 9y ago
> Western civilization is based on merit This is one of the larger falsehoods I've read in a while. It's based on money, connections, favors, historical precedent and power. And it's not the only one.
- protoplant 9y ago
  The book Moneyball talks about this. Well I thought it would be about baseball, but it was kind of about our ability to judge merit. It's hard even in a measurement driven sport like baseball. Sports are arguably the purist meritocracy, yet scouts were routinely missing on their evaluation of talent.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
aklemm 9y ago
Man, this is both naive and very negative. Can you say more about why you think the civilization is based on that?
badpun 9y ago
Sadly, in most fields of employment, measure of merit is either hard or downright impossible. Hence, people have to invest a ton of time into creating an illusion of superior competence. Just look at developers - nerd-posturing discussions in the office, chasing latest frameworks, faking passion by doing open-source commits etc. It's a sad world we live in.
- monksy 9y ago
  Never said that merit was purely based on work. I'm just saying the West doesn't have positions that are based on how close you are to the king, family connections, caste, or other mystical reasons. The funny thing that I've gotten in response is that people seem to believe that merit is only based on how your technical skills are. That's just one part of the job in the tech field.
  - badpun 9y ago
    On the contrary, there are many positions which are filled based on connections and belonging to a certain elite. That may not be prevalent in tech, but that's because tech is viewed as unglamorous, hard and boring work, and who would want to do that. But, in fields such as politics, diplomacy, professorships on major universities, directors of museums and countless others of major influence, the candidates very often get selected on the basis on family connections, or at least belonging to a certain clique. Of course, the candidate must meet some minimum requirements for perceived competency (a diploma from a top school, strong CV otherwise), but there's plenty of such people and, amongst them, connections will decide on who will get the position.
mygo 9y ago
I'll check back with you in 10 years and see if you still believe this to be true.

by monksy 9y ago

protoplant 9y ago

Is it merit based? I would say it's capital based.

monksy 9y ago
Capital generally being a measure of how people evaluate you, yes.

vanillaboy 9y ago

Nope, take a look at Japanese audiobook stores e.g. https://www.febe.jp/ https://www.febe.jp/, they're chock-full of self-improvement garbage. In fact out of 5 new books that come out 3-4 are of the "Get People to Like You in 10 Simple Steps" type.

BoiledCabbage 9y ago

> Western civilization is based on merit This is one of the larger falsehoods I've read in a while. It's based on money, connections, favors, historical precedent and power. And it's not the only one.

protoplant 9y ago
The book Moneyball talks about this. Well I thought it would be about baseball, but it was kind of about our ability to judge merit. It's hard even in a measurement driven sport like baseball. Sports are arguably the purist meritocracy, yet scouts were routinely missing on their evaluation of talent.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

aklemm 9y ago

Man, this is both naive and very negative. Can you say more about why you think the civilization is based on that?

badpun 9y ago

Sadly, in most fields of employment, measure of merit is either hard or downright impossible. Hence, people have to invest a ton of time into creating an illusion of superior competence. Just look at developers - nerd-posturing discussions in the office, chasing latest frameworks, faking passion by doing open-source commits etc. It's a sad world we live in.

monksy 9y ago
Never said that merit was purely based on work. I'm just saying the West doesn't have positions that are based on how close you are to the king, family connections, caste, or other mystical reasons. The funny thing that I've gotten in response is that people seem to believe that merit is only based on how your technical skills are. That's just one part of the job in the tech field.
- badpun 9y ago
  On the contrary, there are many positions which are filled based on connections and belonging to a certain elite. That may not be prevalent in tech, but that's because tech is viewed as unglamorous, hard and boring work, and who would want to do that. But, in fields such as politics, diplomacy, professorships on major universities, directors of museums and countless others of major influence, the candidates very often get selected on the basis on family connections, or at least belonging to a certain clique. Of course, the candidate must meet some minimum requirements for perceived competency (a diploma from a top school, strong CV otherwise), but there's plenty of such people and, amongst them, connections will decide on who will get the position.

mygo 9y ago

I'll check back with you in 10 years and see if you still believe this to be true.