6 ms·

Are you making the argument that a $million+/year is not "well compensated"? You can play for 2-3 years and never work again if you're smart with your money.

x0x0 9y ago
1 - many players are not making millions a year. eg in 2017, two rookie quarterbacks in the playoffs were making $450k, the league minimum. All those average salary facts include eg Tom Brady. 2 - even at $1m/year, you may collect $550k after tax. Three years of that is not never work again money.
- ska 9y ago
  Three years of that is not never work again money. It's worth noting that three years of that gets you a bit over median household income at safe extraction (i.e. 4%) rate. It's not FU money, but as an emergency fall back it is obviously plausibly never work again money.
- criddell 9y ago
  The median salary is $700,000. The average career lasts 3 years. Therefore you could say a typical player makes around $2 million playing football. That's gross. The net is probably about half of that. To most of America that will make an order of magnitude less than that in the same time, that sounds pretty good.
rayiner 9y ago
Most players make closer to the league minimum ($500k) for just 2-3 years. After taxes that’s about $500-750k. Even if you’re smart about your money, you’re saving maybe $350-500k. That’s not “never work again” money.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  $500k/yr for 3 years is "never work again" money for me. That's $1.5 Million. If you pull out what many financial advisors recommend, 4%, that's $60k/yr for the rest of your life. That's above the US median household income.
  - macintux 9y ago
    $60k/year won't get you very far in 20 years, and even today won't get you far at all if you have to pay medical expenses on the damage you received playing the game.
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      The 4% rate is chosen specifically because it's low enough for your retirement savings to continue to grow with inflation. I don't really see your point about $60k not getting you far at all since it's more than half the country makes. I understand you might have a more privileged view of what kind of lifestyle you expect to live, but you'd be doing better than half the country. You'll be fine.
      - macintux 9y ago
        You're a NFL player. By definition you're among the, what, best 1% of players in college. You, of course, go in planning to have a short career, because you're young and invincible and the best. So of course after 3 years of living like a monk you have $1.5 million stashed away...contrary to all rational expectations. Well, less, because after income taxes and because as a young, invincible man among the best to play sports you spend money, maybe you have $300k left. If you're lucky. But you're now unemployed, so you need healthcare. And the mortgage on your house is at least half that $60k/year because you're a young invincible sports hero. You've been earning a half million dollars up to this point, so it's a safe bet it'll be very hard to scale your expenses down to $60k/year. Anyway, I don't know where I'm going with this, except that your expectations of what an NFL player can/will do after being physically tortured for several years (high school, college, NFL) with hidden mental damage and having been a young, invincible man told you're the best of the best and surrounded by people eager to piggyback on your success...may be optimistic.
        Consultant32452 9y ago
        Yeah, I certainly won't argue that there are huge cultural problems that will impede any person's ability to make sound personal finance decisions. And those cultural problems are magnified for someone like an NFL player. But I still think it's important to have rational discussions where were acknowledge that we could choose to live a different way. We could choose to think about money differently.
DoreenMichele 9y ago
if you're smart with your money. Achieving this goal usually requires you to avoid serious brain damage. Repeated concussions and wisely living off the wealth you acquired in a few short years while still very young by managing it extraordinarily well for decades to come are probably mutually exclusive.
- smsm42 9y ago
  I don't think the damage there is as immediate as NFL players being basically legally incompetent and unable to take conscious decisions. It's probably more likely that they have no experience of managing a budget, saving for long term and planning their future - a trait shared by many people who never ever put a foot on a football field. And when you get $ton-of-money and have no experience in managing your finances, pretty soon you're broke. Look up the statistics of the gold rushes - a lot of people coming into sudden wealth got broke pretty soon, and didn't need any hitting on the head for that to happen. The percentage of people that got wealthy and were able to keep it long term is depressingly low.
  - fpig 9y ago
    Every person I know who got wealthy is still wealthy except one (stocks). None of them blew any significant part of their money on consumption. I assume this holds in general, too, if you count all people who get rich, not just lottery winners, athletes, etc. This "no experience managing a budget" stuff is hilarious, you don't need special knowledge not to blow millions. It is not hard. Let's call it what it is for most people - being trash, living extravagantly, and not thinking about the future. It's far more about character than about financial knowledge.
    - smsm42 9y ago
      Statistics proves it is harder than you think.
      - fpig 9y ago
        That's a worthless post without sources. I don't believe statistics would prove that, I am guessing they would prove the opposite, that most wealthy people don't blow their money.
roguecoder 9y ago
The average lifetime earnings of a programmer are higher than professional athletes: http://www.businessinsider.com/better-to-be-a-software-engineer-than-a-pro-athlete-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/better-to-be-a-software-engin... And my job doesn't expect me to sacrifice my mental and physical health, setting me up for a shortened lifetime of degenerative neurological disease in exchange for that cash.
- JamesBarney 9y ago
  They didn't discount future earnings. i.e. You wouldn't buy a T-Bond that will pay you 10,000 in 30 years for $10,000 today. If you discount future earnings at 6% you get 1.8 millions for software engineering versus 2.67 million for NFL.
  - x0x0 9y ago
    An safe investment with a 6% return is a fantasy. 30 year treasuries pay roughly 3% before inflation.
    - JamesBarney 9y ago
      A career is not as safe of an investment as a t-bond.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  Average lifetime earnings are a terrible metric for entertainers, whose earnings are extremely exponentially distributed.
- avip 9y ago
  How so? Isn't sitting still for 9h/day way less healthy than playing professional sport?
  - gbear605 9y ago
    Many (most?) NFL players walk away with horrific brain damage and extreme physical injuries. Sitting still for 9h/day certainly isn't great for your health, but there are things you can do to counteract it - go to the gym, for example. NFL players can't avoid those injuries.
watwut 9y ago
Part of it is also reward for risk - you have to train very hard for years before you can get to NFL. There is opportunity cost (to learn something else for example) with very low chance of getting in. Compare it to programmers who are pretty sure to get job once they finish school, have plenty of time for activities outside of programming and have much lower pressure on them either at the job (NFL equivalent) or while preparing for it.

x0x0 9y ago

1 - many players are not making millions a year. eg in 2017, two rookie quarterbacks in the playoffs were making $450k, the league minimum. All those average salary facts include eg Tom Brady. 2 - even at $1m/year, you may collect $550k after tax. Three years of that is not never work again money.

ska 9y ago
Three years of that is not never work again money. It's worth noting that three years of that gets you a bit over median household income at safe extraction (i.e. 4%) rate. It's not FU money, but as an emergency fall back it is obviously plausibly never work again money.
criddell 9y ago
The median salary is $700,000. The average career lasts 3 years. Therefore you could say a typical player makes around $2 million playing football. That's gross. The net is probably about half of that. To most of America that will make an order of magnitude less than that in the same time, that sounds pretty good.

rayiner 9y ago

Most players make closer to the league minimum ($500k) for just 2-3 years. After taxes that’s about $500-750k. Even if you’re smart about your money, you’re saving maybe $350-500k. That’s not “never work again” money.

Consultant32452 9y ago
$500k/yr for 3 years is "never work again" money for me. That's $1.5 Million. If you pull out what many financial advisors recommend, 4%, that's $60k/yr for the rest of your life. That's above the US median household income.
- macintux 9y ago
  $60k/year won't get you very far in 20 years, and even today won't get you far at all if you have to pay medical expenses on the damage you received playing the game.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    The 4% rate is chosen specifically because it's low enough for your retirement savings to continue to grow with inflation. I don't really see your point about $60k not getting you far at all since it's more than half the country makes. I understand you might have a more privileged view of what kind of lifestyle you expect to live, but you'd be doing better than half the country. You'll be fine.
    - macintux 9y ago
      You're a NFL player. By definition you're among the, what, best 1% of players in college. You, of course, go in planning to have a short career, because you're young and invincible and the best. So of course after 3 years of living like a monk you have $1.5 million stashed away...contrary to all rational expectations. Well, less, because after income taxes and because as a young, invincible man among the best to play sports you spend money, maybe you have $300k left. If you're lucky. But you're now unemployed, so you need healthcare. And the mortgage on your house is at least half that $60k/year because you're a young invincible sports hero. You've been earning a half million dollars up to this point, so it's a safe bet it'll be very hard to scale your expenses down to $60k/year. Anyway, I don't know where I'm going with this, except that your expectations of what an NFL player can/will do after being physically tortured for several years (high school, college, NFL) with hidden mental damage and having been a young, invincible man told you're the best of the best and surrounded by people eager to piggyback on your success...may be optimistic.
      - Consultant32452 9y ago
        Yeah, I certainly won't argue that there are huge cultural problems that will impede any person's ability to make sound personal finance decisions. And those cultural problems are magnified for someone like an NFL player. But I still think it's important to have rational discussions where were acknowledge that we could choose to live a different way. We could choose to think about money differently.

DoreenMichele 9y ago

if you're smart with your money. Achieving this goal usually requires you to avoid serious brain damage. Repeated concussions and wisely living off the wealth you acquired in a few short years while still very young by managing it extraordinarily well for decades to come are probably mutually exclusive.

smsm42 9y ago
I don't think the damage there is as immediate as NFL players being basically legally incompetent and unable to take conscious decisions. It's probably more likely that they have no experience of managing a budget, saving for long term and planning their future - a trait shared by many people who never ever put a foot on a football field. And when you get $ton-of-money and have no experience in managing your finances, pretty soon you're broke. Look up the statistics of the gold rushes - a lot of people coming into sudden wealth got broke pretty soon, and didn't need any hitting on the head for that to happen. The percentage of people that got wealthy and were able to keep it long term is depressingly low.
- fpig 9y ago
  Every person I know who got wealthy is still wealthy except one (stocks). None of them blew any significant part of their money on consumption. I assume this holds in general, too, if you count all people who get rich, not just lottery winners, athletes, etc. This "no experience managing a budget" stuff is hilarious, you don't need special knowledge not to blow millions. It is not hard. Let's call it what it is for most people - being trash, living extravagantly, and not thinking about the future. It's far more about character than about financial knowledge.
  - smsm42 9y ago
    Statistics proves it is harder than you think.
    - fpig 9y ago
      That's a worthless post without sources. I don't believe statistics would prove that, I am guessing they would prove the opposite, that most wealthy people don't blow their money.

roguecoder 9y ago

The average lifetime earnings of a programmer are higher than professional athletes: http://www.businessinsider.com/better-to-be-a-software-engineer-than-a-pro-athlete-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/better-to-be-a-software-engin... And my job doesn't expect me to sacrifice my mental and physical health, setting me up for a shortened lifetime of degenerative neurological disease in exchange for that cash.

JamesBarney 9y ago
They didn't discount future earnings. i.e. You wouldn't buy a T-Bond that will pay you 10,000 in 30 years for $10,000 today. If you discount future earnings at 6% you get 1.8 millions for software engineering versus 2.67 million for NFL.
- x0x0 9y ago
  An safe investment with a 6% return is a fantasy. 30 year treasuries pay roughly 3% before inflation.
  - JamesBarney 9y ago
    A career is not as safe of an investment as a t-bond.
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
Average lifetime earnings are a terrible metric for entertainers, whose earnings are extremely exponentially distributed.
avip 9y ago
How so? Isn't sitting still for 9h/day way less healthy than playing professional sport?
- gbear605 9y ago
  Many (most?) NFL players walk away with horrific brain damage and extreme physical injuries. Sitting still for 9h/day certainly isn't great for your health, but there are things you can do to counteract it - go to the gym, for example. NFL players can't avoid those injuries.

watwut 9y ago

Part of it is also reward for risk - you have to train very hard for years before you can get to NFL. There is opportunity cost (to learn something else for example) with very low chance of getting in. Compare it to programmers who are pretty sure to get job once they finish school, have plenty of time for activities outside of programming and have much lower pressure on them either at the job (NFL equivalent) or while preparing for it.