5 ms·

"and are leaving it broken". > Confirmed resolved in iOS 11.3 beta 1. > 3 days ago

by mikewhy 9y ago

sp332 9y ago
That's good, but as the article says, the release date for 11.3 is "Spring".
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  Why is it that Apple can't manage to update their browser without updating the whole OS?
  - oneplane 9y ago
    Because it's not just the browser, it's WebKit for the entire iOS.
    - RobertRoberts 9y ago
      Does it _have_ to be?
      - favorited 9y ago
        It would mean shipping 2 WebKit frameworks, once for Safari and one for the rest of the OS. Even then it could be fixed in Safari, but then sites still wouldn't work in Chrome, Firefox, or other apps with embedded browsers.
        RobertRoberts 9y ago
        You mean just like Android does with Chrome? How hard is that? Why is this even worthy of debate? The browser is an application, not a system resource. To commingle the two makes no sense. Unless you think it's worth saving a few mbs of storage to have two instances for security and stability??
        scarface74 9y ago
        How is the browser not a system resource when there are so many apps that are basically a wrapper around a webview or have one embedded? The preferred Webview on iOS for apps is an out of process Safari instance that the app has minimum control over.
        lern_too_spel 9y ago
        The preferred WebView on Android is an out of process Chrome instance. The difference is that the Chrome app that provides that widget is updated without requiring an OS update, which is what we're all wondering why Apple can't do, either because of incompetence (my guess) or malice (the hypothesis of the article's author).
        scarface74 9y ago
        Chrome is being updated outside of the operating system updates not because of some great pure architectural motivation - but out of necessity. Apple can push an entire OS upgrade to its entire customer base without worrying about carriers or third party OEMs. Google not so much so. Why would Apple go through the trouble of implementing a feature and then breaking it? The promise of not needing native apps for mobile started with Apple in 2007, then Palm, RIM, and Microsoft. It's always been a poor user experience. It still is today on mobile - with apps that are just glorified web view wrappers and on the desktop with memory hogging, battery draining, slow Electron apps.
        lern_too_spel 9y ago
        > Apple can push an entire OS upgrade to its entire customer base without worrying about carriers or third party OEMs. Google not so much so. Google can do the same thing with its own devices and on Android One devices. Even so, updating just the browser automatically is clearly better than requiring the user to reboot. Since apps are required to deal gracefully with being restarted by the system arbitrarily, the user doesn't even notice. This allows Google to update the browser much faster than Apple even on non-Google devices. All that talk about web apps vs. native is tangential to the point — that Apple, through sheer incompetence, ships a worse browser that is updated much more slowly than its competitors, allowing its competitors customers to have more and better apps than Apple's customers in a more secure browser. That Apple apologists even try to find some way to justify this just makes them look ridiculous.
        seba_dos1 9y ago
        Or, it would simply mean providing updates to system WebKit, just like it's done on Android.
        favorited 9y ago
        Isn't releasing new versions of shared system code what an OS update is? Not trying to be snarky or anything, it just seems like that's what this is.
        JohnTHaller 9y ago
        The underlying blink engine on Android is basically a shared app library. It's updated as often as Chrome is via automatic updates from the Play Store. It gets updated even on phones running older versions of Android or Android versions the OEM isn't updating in a timely manner.
        d1zzy 9y ago
        No matter how it's called it shouldn't take multiple months to test and release updates to single shared components, especially when the point is that you introduced a regression in a previous update.
    - JohnTHaller 9y ago
      Android's browser component used for applications updates without requiring an OS update.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - tptacek 9y ago
    It's one of the most security-sensitive components on the system. Users will still need to know it's getting updated, and to OK the update. There's no logistical difference.
    - lern_too_spel 9y ago
      Most users would allow the browser to auto update, just like they do with desktop Chrome and with browsers distributed through the Play Store on Android. Since browser updates don't require rebooting the entire system, they happen much more frequently on these other platforms. In the Android case, since the application model requires the app developer to recover gracefully from the system killing the application without warning, software updates happen with minimal distraction, even if the user is actively using the app being updated.
X-Istence 9y ago
https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181781#c4 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181781#c4

"and are leaving it broken". > Confirmed resolved in iOS 11.3 beta 1. > 3 days ago

sp332 9y ago

That's good, but as the article says, the release date for 11.3 is "Spring".

lern_too_spel 9y ago
Why is it that Apple can't manage to update their browser without updating the whole OS?
- oneplane 9y ago
  Because it's not just the browser, it's WebKit for the entire iOS.
  - RobertRoberts 9y ago
    Does it _have_ to be?
    - favorited 9y ago
      It would mean shipping 2 WebKit frameworks, once for Safari and one for the rest of the OS. Even then it could be fixed in Safari, but then sites still wouldn't work in Chrome, Firefox, or other apps with embedded browsers.
      - RobertRoberts 9y ago
        You mean just like Android does with Chrome? How hard is that? Why is this even worthy of debate? The browser is an application, not a system resource. To commingle the two makes no sense. Unless you think it's worth saving a few mbs of storage to have two instances for security and stability??
        scarface74 9y ago
        How is the browser not a system resource when there are so many apps that are basically a wrapper around a webview or have one embedded? The preferred Webview on iOS for apps is an out of process Safari instance that the app has minimum control over.
        lern_too_spel 9y ago
        The preferred WebView on Android is an out of process Chrome instance. The difference is that the Chrome app that provides that widget is updated without requiring an OS update, which is what we're all wondering why Apple can't do, either because of incompetence (my guess) or malice (the hypothesis of the article's author).
        scarface74 9y ago
        Chrome is being updated outside of the operating system updates not because of some great pure architectural motivation - but out of necessity. Apple can push an entire OS upgrade to its entire customer base without worrying about carriers or third party OEMs. Google not so much so. Why would Apple go through the trouble of implementing a feature and then breaking it? The promise of not needing native apps for mobile started with Apple in 2007, then Palm, RIM, and Microsoft. It's always been a poor user experience. It still is today on mobile - with apps that are just glorified web view wrappers and on the desktop with memory hogging, battery draining, slow Electron apps.
        lern_too_spel 9y ago
        > Apple can push an entire OS upgrade to its entire customer base without worrying about carriers or third party OEMs. Google not so much so. Google can do the same thing with its own devices and on Android One devices. Even so, updating just the browser automatically is clearly better than requiring the user to reboot. Since apps are required to deal gracefully with being restarted by the system arbitrarily, the user doesn't even notice. This allows Google to update the browser much faster than Apple even on non-Google devices. All that talk about web apps vs. native is tangential to the point — that Apple, through sheer incompetence, ships a worse browser that is updated much more slowly than its competitors, allowing its competitors customers to have more and better apps than Apple's customers in a more secure browser. That Apple apologists even try to find some way to justify this just makes them look ridiculous.
      - seba_dos1 9y ago
        Or, it would simply mean providing updates to system WebKit, just like it's done on Android.
        favorited 9y ago
        Isn't releasing new versions of shared system code what an OS update is? Not trying to be snarky or anything, it just seems like that's what this is.
        JohnTHaller 9y ago
        The underlying blink engine on Android is basically a shared app library. It's updated as often as Chrome is via automatic updates from the Play Store. It gets updated even on phones running older versions of Android or Android versions the OEM isn't updating in a timely manner.
        d1zzy 9y ago
        No matter how it's called it shouldn't take multiple months to test and release updates to single shared components, especially when the point is that you introduced a regression in a previous update.
  - JohnTHaller 9y ago
    Android's browser component used for applications updates without requiring an OS update.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- tptacek 9y ago
  It's one of the most security-sensitive components on the system. Users will still need to know it's getting updated, and to OK the update. There's no logistical difference.
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    Most users would allow the browser to auto update, just like they do with desktop Chrome and with browsers distributed through the Play Store on Android. Since browser updates don't require rebooting the entire system, they happen much more frequently on these other platforms. In the Android case, since the application model requires the app developer to recover gracefully from the system killing the application without warning, software updates happen with minimal distraction, even if the user is actively using the app being updated.

X-Istence 9y ago

https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181781#c4 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181781#c4