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> Why is this "right not to work" not enforced across the board? People should be able to just slack off whenever, right? It is, and they are. You may end up l

> Why is this "right not to work" not enforced across the board? People should be able to just slack off whenever, right? It is, and they are. You may end up living on the street if you don't work, but the choice is 100% yours. > what if the fire department decides not to help you? Do they have a right not to work? The fire department entered into a contract with their coverage area, bought and paid for in advance by the people they are covering. > If the only X specialist surgeon available in the world decides to not treat you? And by this I mean, they're willing to treat other people, just not you. What then? This frequently happens, especially with surgeons. Your questions indicate to me you have not sincerely considered GP's argument. Your _choosing_ to work is very different from my (or the government) _forcing_ you to work.

fao_ 9y ago
> It is, and they are. You may end up living on the street if you don't work, but the choice is 100% yours. "Be homeless or work" is not a choice. Just like "Give me the money or I'll shoot you" is not a choice. > The fire department entered into a contract with their coverage area, bought and paid for in advance by the people they are covering. Just like the surgeons, at the hospital. Now you're finally understanding it. > This frequently happens, especially with surgeons. Wow, really? I've never heard of it happening. At least, not within the civilized countries in the EU (As opposed to uncivilized America).
- conanbatt 9y ago
  > "Be homeless or work" is not a choice. Just like "Give me the money or I'll shoot you" is not a choice. Give me healthcare or I will imprison you is your actual proposition, once you shed the intermediary steps. Freedom is freedom from men, not from nature. We all decay and are victims of our biology, as well as our desires. You are as subject to dying from starvation as of dying from lack of healthcare service if people denied you access to it. The question is not if you have a right to demand those goods, but why the people that are willing to serve you health care for cheap cant get to you.
  - fao_ 9y ago
    > Give me healthcare or I will imprison you is your actual proposition Uh, no? Private healthcare still exists in the UK, alongside the public healthcare industry. People have a choice of which to go into. You seem to have a complete misunderstanding of how this system works...
    - conanbatt 9y ago
      Why does someone that pay gor his own private care does not have the option to not pay public care. That is the "do it or prison" aspect.
      - fao_ 9y ago
        For the same reason that you pay for train maintenance despite probably having a car (At least in places with nationalized trains). Also are you comparing being homeless (and risking death from disease, and the winter months in the process) to the simple inconvenience of taxes? I'm sorry, I cannot discuss any longer with someone who is willing to consider things so loosely and callously.
        conanbatt 9y ago
        > simple inconvenience of taxes Okay. United Kingdom has 34.4% of tax to GDP ratio. That means that out of 5 working days, almost 2 days are given to the state. I would not consider working 2 days a week for the government a "simple inconvenience".
        dragonwriter 9y ago
        That analysis of “work days” assumes that 100% of GDP is retained by labor in the absence of taxes.
        conanbatt 9y ago
        Its probably even worse if you take a marxist approach to labor.

fao_ 9y ago

> It is, and they are. You may end up living on the street if you don't work, but the choice is 100% yours. "Be homeless or work" is not a choice. Just like "Give me the money or I'll shoot you" is not a choice. > The fire department entered into a contract with their coverage area, bought and paid for in advance by the people they are covering. Just like the surgeons, at the hospital. Now you're finally understanding it. > This frequently happens, especially with surgeons. Wow, really? I've never heard of it happening. At least, not within the civilized countries in the EU (As opposed to uncivilized America).

conanbatt 9y ago
> "Be homeless or work" is not a choice. Just like "Give me the money or I'll shoot you" is not a choice. Give me healthcare or I will imprison you is your actual proposition, once you shed the intermediary steps. Freedom is freedom from men, not from nature. We all decay and are victims of our biology, as well as our desires. You are as subject to dying from starvation as of dying from lack of healthcare service if people denied you access to it. The question is not if you have a right to demand those goods, but why the people that are willing to serve you health care for cheap cant get to you.
- fao_ 9y ago
  > Give me healthcare or I will imprison you is your actual proposition Uh, no? Private healthcare still exists in the UK, alongside the public healthcare industry. People have a choice of which to go into. You seem to have a complete misunderstanding of how this system works...
  - conanbatt 9y ago
    Why does someone that pay gor his own private care does not have the option to not pay public care. That is the "do it or prison" aspect.
    - fao_ 9y ago
      For the same reason that you pay for train maintenance despite probably having a car (At least in places with nationalized trains). Also are you comparing being homeless (and risking death from disease, and the winter months in the process) to the simple inconvenience of taxes? I'm sorry, I cannot discuss any longer with someone who is willing to consider things so loosely and callously.
      - conanbatt 9y ago
        > simple inconvenience of taxes Okay. United Kingdom has 34.4% of tax to GDP ratio. That means that out of 5 working days, almost 2 days are given to the state. I would not consider working 2 days a week for the government a "simple inconvenience".
        dragonwriter 9y ago
        That analysis of “work days” assumes that 100% of GDP is retained by labor in the absence of taxes.
        conanbatt 9y ago
        Its probably even worse if you take a marxist approach to labor.