4 ms·

I am reminded of Ghost in the Shell : SAC where they mention that video and photographic evidence became inadmissible in court due to how easy it was to produce

I am reminded of Ghost in the Shell : SAC where they mention that video and photographic evidence became inadmissible in court due to how easy it was to produce fakes. I think we are perhaps 1-2 years away from this becoming a practical consideration for the judicial system.

knodi123 9y ago
I think the reality is that there's a burgeoning opportunity for cryptographically secure chain-of-evidence cameras. Sure, no protection is perfect, but if a manufacturer can reliably state "It will require [X] level of resources and effort to falsify data in our camera", then a lawyer can present footage and ask the jury to draw their own conclusion about whether a criminal's claims of "fake footage!" are reasonable.
- pixl97 9y ago
  So everybody is going to go out and buy new phones and cameras? Also, using Meltdown and Specter as examples, can these companies actually build cryptographically secure devices. It's easy for a manufacture to say "Our device is secure", and it's easy for the judge to say "You go to jail for life", but it creates a big mess in the legal system when we realize 3 years later that someone extracted the private key from a device, framed somebody, and that person had been put in the electric chair between now and then.
  - knodi123 9y ago
    > So everybody is going to go out and buy new phones and cameras? Probably not. That sounds a little ridiculous. But probably so in the case of security cameras or bodycams or dashcams. > but it creates a big mess in the legal system when we realize 3 years later that someone extracted the private key from a device, framed somebody, Yeah, I covered that. Did you read my second sentence, or only the first one? Evidence can already be faked. Eye-witness testimony has been faked for millenia. Photographic evidence started being faked shortly after the invention of the camera. What you do is, make sure the jury knows how hard it would be to fake, and let them make an informed decision. Does that mean it's technically possible to frame someone? Yes! Just like it is today. Sucks to live in an imperfect world. > and that person had been put in the electric chair between now and then That's a valid argument against the death penalty. But that's a different subject entirely.
- algorithmsRcool 9y ago
  Canon used to sell a cryptographic addon that could 'prove' a file was generated by a specific camera. I couldn't find it when i looked just now, i think the implementation was broken.
swirepe 9y ago
I liked that scene in GitSSAC because it is animated, so any proficient artist could create a realistic fake. How do you show an animated fake when everything is animated?

knodi123 9y ago

I think the reality is that there's a burgeoning opportunity for cryptographically secure chain-of-evidence cameras. Sure, no protection is perfect, but if a manufacturer can reliably state "It will require [X] level of resources and effort to falsify data in our camera", then a lawyer can present footage and ask the jury to draw their own conclusion about whether a criminal's claims of "fake footage!" are reasonable.

pixl97 9y ago
So everybody is going to go out and buy new phones and cameras? Also, using Meltdown and Specter as examples, can these companies actually build cryptographically secure devices. It's easy for a manufacture to say "Our device is secure", and it's easy for the judge to say "You go to jail for life", but it creates a big mess in the legal system when we realize 3 years later that someone extracted the private key from a device, framed somebody, and that person had been put in the electric chair between now and then.
- knodi123 9y ago
  > So everybody is going to go out and buy new phones and cameras? Probably not. That sounds a little ridiculous. But probably so in the case of security cameras or bodycams or dashcams. > but it creates a big mess in the legal system when we realize 3 years later that someone extracted the private key from a device, framed somebody, Yeah, I covered that. Did you read my second sentence, or only the first one? Evidence can already be faked. Eye-witness testimony has been faked for millenia. Photographic evidence started being faked shortly after the invention of the camera. What you do is, make sure the jury knows how hard it would be to fake, and let them make an informed decision. Does that mean it's technically possible to frame someone? Yes! Just like it is today. Sucks to live in an imperfect world. > and that person had been put in the electric chair between now and then That's a valid argument against the death penalty. But that's a different subject entirely.
algorithmsRcool 9y ago
Canon used to sell a cryptographic addon that could 'prove' a file was generated by a specific camera. I couldn't find it when i looked just now, i think the implementation was broken.

swirepe 9y ago

I liked that scene in GitSSAC because it is animated, so any proficient artist could create a realistic fake. How do you show an animated fake when everything is animated?