6 ms·

Apple seeking to patent spyware

83 points by chmike 16y ago

aaronbrethorst 16y ago
"traitorware"? Wow, that's not unnecessarily inflammatory at all!
- blasdel 16y ago
  They're taking after the RMS school of linkbait PR — a mix of activism that's too earnest for all but their most strident supporters and neologisms so punny that even your dad would groan at them.
  - aaronbrethorst 16y ago
    I know. I know. It isn't endearing when RMS or the FSF do it either. Turns me off from supporting them in the future.
    - jrockway 16y ago
      OTOH, it keeps my $120 a year flowing.
  - nanairo 16y ago
    True. But let's not make it sound like it's only a hackery community thing. Another example: Greenpeace (as opposed to other pro-enviornmental groups). And depending on your world view, possibly Fox news. ;)
- bitdiddle 16y ago
  Well I would have to respectfully disagree. They are calling it what it is. I appreciate the simple and direct language.
ubernostrum 16y ago
So as about a million comments on Slashdot -- about as Apple-hating a place as you'll find -- pointed out, this patent application is basically for the phone equivalent of OnStar's "someone stole my car, find it and shut it down" system, plus a couple extra features like taking a picture of the thief or detecting attempts to get through the passcode lock. The patent, if granted, will most likely be bogus, but the intent is perfectly reasonable. Of course, reasonable things don't generate lots of pageviews and donations, so it has to be spun into some megalomaniacal complex Steve Jobs has which drives him to want to spy on you, you personally and take away all your freedoms to suit his nefarious purposes. Which is vicious lying stinking reeking bullshit FUD, which is what EFF has lately taken to using as a signature tactic, which is why I no longer donate to them.
- jarmop 16y ago
  Analogy problem: You can't steal your own car. This application, bogus or not, is targeted to the possibility that you steal your own phone.
  - masklinn 16y ago
    > This application, bogus or not, is targeted to the possibility that you steal your own phone. Uh... how? And what sense does that even make? How can you steal what you already own exactly?
    - nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
      If Apple doesn't agree with you that you own the software on the phone, then jailbreaking your phone is "stealing" the software from them...
      - alextgordon 16y ago
        It seems much more likely that they'll use this to recover stolen phones (which makes them money), than to spy on jailbreakers (which makes them no money, and will probably get them sued).
houseabsolute 16y ago
Answers the question: why do normal people, when they know the EFF exists at all, think it is a joke?
- bitdiddle 16y ago
  Well I never understood the phrase "normal people", that's sort of like "the real world", but given that "most people"(choose your study and scary high percentage) can't identify which century the civil was fought it and believe the president is a muslim, it wouldn't surprise me that normal people would think that an organization dedicated to protected their constitutional and civil rights was a joke.
  - tvon 16y ago
    > an organization dedicated to protected their constitutional and civil rights The appeal to emotion aside, that sounds like serious work, maybe they should avoid sensationalist blog posts and snarky little nicknames like "traitorware" that make them sound childish. I certainly take them a little less seriously now than I did before I read the linked blog post.
natch 16y ago
Talk about prior art, Google already does most of this.
- teamonkey 16y ago
  I've had Prey installed for some time (though I've never needed to use it). http://preyproject.com/ http://preyproject.com/ It doesn't do the biometrics stuff, but then neither does Google.
Samuel_Michon 16y ago
From the patent description: "Many [..] electronic devices are used frequently by their owners, and the electronic devices may contain personal or sensitive information stored within them. [..] Accordingly, if the electronic device is lost or stolen, the loss of the electronic device can be exceedingly disruptive to the owner's peace of mind and security. Thus, the owner may desire to find out where the lost electronic device is located or who may have gained possession of or stolen the electronic device." Note the use of the word "owner", not "Evil Empire". What is being described here is a service called "Find my iPhone", which is part of Apple's MobileMe subscription service. (What, you didn't think Apple would be spying on you for free, did you? $99 a year, baby!)
37prime 16y ago
Sensationalistic headline from EFF. Then again, they need to raise some awareness, even though I am not always siding with them. I still do support the EFF.
akmiller 16y ago
I'd be fine with this as long as it is an optional install. If the software is forced on you is where it becomes a problem. Apple could have the best intentions ever, but as mentioned in the article, if they have this capability the government, at some point, will come knocking.
- masklinn 16y ago
  "The Government" doesn't need this. Your standard phone already has everything it needs to locate you and tap your communications.
  - akmiller 16y ago
    I disagree...the government will very much want this as I don't have a standard phone anymore because of cell phones. Many people are getting rid of their land-lines in favor of one phone. Not to mention that tapping my phone would likely require a warrant whereas in this situation they simply have to convince Apple it's in there best interest to comply.
omouse 16y ago
Everyone here is talking about the sensationalistic headline from the EFF. What about all the hype and sensationalism that follows Apple products?? The EFF is trying to work in your best interests, for the sake of your privacy. Apple is not.
- nanairo 16y ago
  The danger is that it could backfire... ever read the fairy tale of the child who cried wolf?
Gormo 16y ago
What Apple is attempting to patent sounds almost exactly like the software that was at the center of that school-district spyware scandal a few months ago: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/04/webcamscanda/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/04/webcamscanda/
geuis 16y ago
Link to patent http://www.patentvest.com/console/reports/docs/app/20100207721.html http://www.patentvest.com/console/reports/docs/app/201002077...
benbeltran 16y ago
It seemst hat MobileMe is getting a biometric update huh?
protomyth 16y ago
Bogus articles like this, particularly from an organization with a serious reputation, obscures good articles that point out actual dangers. This is a patent on a form of lojack or extension to what's already available on the mobileme website. I am much more afraid of a thief using the stolen data than the government (who already have means to do this).

83 points by chmike 16y ago

aaronbrethorst 16y ago

"traitorware"? Wow, that's not unnecessarily inflammatory at all!

blasdel 16y ago
They're taking after the RMS school of linkbait PR — a mix of activism that's too earnest for all but their most strident supporters and neologisms so punny that even your dad would groan at them.
- aaronbrethorst 16y ago
  I know. I know. It isn't endearing when RMS or the FSF do it either. Turns me off from supporting them in the future.
  - jrockway 16y ago
    OTOH, it keeps my $120 a year flowing.
- nanairo 16y ago
  True. But let's not make it sound like it's only a hackery community thing. Another example: Greenpeace (as opposed to other pro-enviornmental groups). And depending on your world view, possibly Fox news. ;)
bitdiddle 16y ago
Well I would have to respectfully disagree. They are calling it what it is. I appreciate the simple and direct language.

ubernostrum 16y ago

So as about a million comments on Slashdot -- about as Apple-hating a place as you'll find -- pointed out, this patent application is basically for the phone equivalent of OnStar's "someone stole my car, find it and shut it down" system, plus a couple extra features like taking a picture of the thief or detecting attempts to get through the passcode lock. The patent, if granted, will most likely be bogus, but the intent is perfectly reasonable. Of course, reasonable things don't generate lots of pageviews and donations, so it has to be spun into some megalomaniacal complex Steve Jobs has which drives him to want to spy on you, you personally and take away all your freedoms to suit his nefarious purposes. Which is vicious lying stinking reeking bullshit FUD, which is what EFF has lately taken to using as a signature tactic, which is why I no longer donate to them.

jarmop 16y ago
Analogy problem: You can't steal your own car. This application, bogus or not, is targeted to the possibility that you steal your own phone.
- masklinn 16y ago
  > This application, bogus or not, is targeted to the possibility that you steal your own phone. Uh... how? And what sense does that even make? How can you steal what you already own exactly?
  - nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
    If Apple doesn't agree with you that you own the software on the phone, then jailbreaking your phone is "stealing" the software from them...
    - alextgordon 16y ago
      It seems much more likely that they'll use this to recover stolen phones (which makes them money), than to spy on jailbreakers (which makes them no money, and will probably get them sued).

houseabsolute 16y ago

Answers the question: why do normal people, when they know the EFF exists at all, think it is a joke?

bitdiddle 16y ago
Well I never understood the phrase "normal people", that's sort of like "the real world", but given that "most people"(choose your study and scary high percentage) can't identify which century the civil was fought it and believe the president is a muslim, it wouldn't surprise me that normal people would think that an organization dedicated to protected their constitutional and civil rights was a joke.
- tvon 16y ago
  > an organization dedicated to protected their constitutional and civil rights The appeal to emotion aside, that sounds like serious work, maybe they should avoid sensationalist blog posts and snarky little nicknames like "traitorware" that make them sound childish. I certainly take them a little less seriously now than I did before I read the linked blog post.

natch 16y ago

Talk about prior art, Google already does most of this.

teamonkey 16y ago
I've had Prey installed for some time (though I've never needed to use it). http://preyproject.com/ http://preyproject.com/ It doesn't do the biometrics stuff, but then neither does Google.

Samuel_Michon 16y ago

From the patent description: "Many [..] electronic devices are used frequently by their owners, and the electronic devices may contain personal or sensitive information stored within them. [..] Accordingly, if the electronic device is lost or stolen, the loss of the electronic device can be exceedingly disruptive to the owner's peace of mind and security. Thus, the owner may desire to find out where the lost electronic device is located or who may have gained possession of or stolen the electronic device." Note the use of the word "owner", not "Evil Empire". What is being described here is a service called "Find my iPhone", which is part of Apple's MobileMe subscription service. (What, you didn't think Apple would be spying on you for free, did you? $99 a year, baby!)

37prime 16y ago

Sensationalistic headline from EFF. Then again, they need to raise some awareness, even though I am not always siding with them. I still do support the EFF.

akmiller 16y ago

I'd be fine with this as long as it is an optional install. If the software is forced on you is where it becomes a problem. Apple could have the best intentions ever, but as mentioned in the article, if they have this capability the government, at some point, will come knocking.

masklinn 16y ago
"The Government" doesn't need this. Your standard phone already has everything it needs to locate you and tap your communications.
- akmiller 16y ago
  I disagree...the government will very much want this as I don't have a standard phone anymore because of cell phones. Many people are getting rid of their land-lines in favor of one phone. Not to mention that tapping my phone would likely require a warrant whereas in this situation they simply have to convince Apple it's in there best interest to comply.

omouse 16y ago

Everyone here is talking about the sensationalistic headline from the EFF. What about all the hype and sensationalism that follows Apple products?? The EFF is trying to work in your best interests, for the sake of your privacy. Apple is not.

nanairo 16y ago
The danger is that it could backfire... ever read the fairy tale of the child who cried wolf?

Gormo 16y ago

What Apple is attempting to patent sounds almost exactly like the software that was at the center of that school-district spyware scandal a few months ago: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/04/webcamscanda/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/04/webcamscanda/

geuis 16y ago

Link to patent http://www.patentvest.com/console/reports/docs/app/20100207721.html http://www.patentvest.com/console/reports/docs/app/201002077...

benbeltran 16y ago

It seemst hat MobileMe is getting a biometric update huh?

protomyth 16y ago

Bogus articles like this, particularly from an organization with a serious reputation, obscures good articles that point out actual dangers. This is a patent on a form of lojack or extension to what's already available on the mobileme website. I am much more afraid of a thief using the stolen data than the government (who already have means to do this).