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Couldn't we argue that about all games? Particularly no or low randomness games (such as sudoku, or euro board games, respectively). But even games with randomn
by harperlee 9y ago
Couldn't we argue that about all games? Particularly no or low randomness games (such as sudoku, or euro board games, respectively). But even games with randomness might be winnable by following an algorithm. The trance of executing those "algorithms" (playing, basically) is also part of the fun. Solitaire card games, for example. The gambling part of playing the odds against randomness is just one diension of fun!
- arbitrage 9y agoWhat's a euro board game?
- fragmede 9y agoBroadly, they have indirect player interaction and abstract physical components (eg Ticket to Ride), but more importantly in this context, they are board games that often do not use dice or a spinner to introduce randomness. Strategy then becomes a "boring" matter of executing an algorithm. (There are many exceptions that do use die/dice, but for those that have not played board games invented after Monopoly, the idea of a board game that does not have die-introduced randomness may be quite foreign.)
- com2kid 9y agoSome of them have larger amounts of player interaction, at which point the game becomes "modify your strategy on the fly to deal with an ever changing situation".
- electrum 9y agoTicket to Ride has randomness in the train card deck. You can effectively gamble by drawing off the deck rather than choosing one of the face up cards.
- Anderkent 9y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurogame https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurogame
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- klez 9y agoI guess something like this?[0] [0] https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Eurogame https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Eurogame
- usrusr 9y agoThe term relates to a specific style of rule design. They are usually sitting right in the middle between entirely abstract games like backgammon and "simulation" games like Risk or Monopoly. There is usually some theme, but gameplay considerations (mostly revolving around keeping the game interesting for those not on an obvious path to victory and balancing luck vs skill, hence the mention in this thread) are far more important in the design than adhering to that theme. Sometimes it even seems as if the theme was not serving as inspiration for the rules but it's only a skin pasted over the bare rules after the gameplay had been tweaked to perfection.
- maxerickson 9y agoSudoku is where the pattern stood out starkly for me. Essentially trivial solvers are better than all humans.
- thethirdone 9y agoI guess that depends on what "trivial" means. Given that it is np-complete any true solver needs to be able to go into exponential time (assuming p != np) which I wouldn't generally consider to be "trivial" unless its a brute force solver. And using trivial deductions (based on the numbers in the column, row, and square there is only one possibility) is not sufficient to be better than me (and I don't consider myself to be good).
- maxerickson 9y agoThe "classic" boards (9 by 9) are all easily solved by straightforward methods. Maybe "trivial" is a step too for for the 'eliminate' and 'search' functions here, but they aren't a lot of code either: http://norvig.com/sudoku.html http://norvig.com/sudoku.html