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Because people aren't robots. That's not how the brain works. People can't concentrate 100% for 8-12 hours a day every day consistently. >What if your supervis

Because people aren't robots. That's not how the brain works. People can't concentrate 100% for 8-12 hours a day every day consistently. >What if your supervisor could identify every time you paused to scratch or fidget, and for how long you took a bathroom break? I certainly wouldn't want to work under those conditions.

JoeAltmaier 9y ago
So the best workers will be people too. No worries; folks won't be judged or measured as robots. Not an issue.
- chris11 9y ago
  I think you have more faith in companies than I do. Jobs can have a lot of unreasonable expectations, especially if it is a low wage position with high turnover. And Amazon already has a poor reputation for it's low skilled positions.
- jdlyga 9y ago
  Management won't have trackers on their every movement. You can take anything out of context to make the best worker look terrible if you look hard enough with that much data.
- Clubber 9y ago
  My point being even the best workers will need a moment now and then.
  - ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
    But really... will they? If this technology was used to find the bottom 10% of workers and correct their behavior or fire them, it would probably be fine. But there are people who ARE able to maintain almost perfect efficiency for huge lengths of time. Everyone will be measured and everyone will be expected to preform. People in the "normal" range will be made to feel inadequate. Everyone will be getting prescriptions for ADHD meds to compete with the top performers. The top performers will then feel pressured to get the same medications in order to maintain their advantage. This technology could put a lot of pressure on the system. And it could lead to people eliminating small breaks that might be necessary to maintain their mental health. I guess time will tell. I'm hoping companies use the idea responsibly and think about the long term incentives they create. But that doesn't seem likely.
    - beamatronic 9y ago
      >> Everyone will be getting >> prescriptions for ADHD meds to >> compete with the top performers. We are already there and have been for years, for getting into elite universities. Perhaps not yet for warehouse or fast food positions.
    - ZenoArrow 9y ago
      This isn't just a way to find the slowest employees, this is a way to optimise the performance of all workers. Consider if we have three employees. Person X is the fastest, Person Z is the slowest, and Person Y is somewhere in the middle. Consider how management will treat Person Y. For example, both of these sentiments are likely to be used by management to motivate/control Person Y: "Person X is performing at a quicker rate than you, what can we do to close the gap" "Don't be like Person Z or you're at risk of losing your job" If you think that a company like Amazon will do nothing about mediocre performance, you're almost certainly mistaken. To be honest, if these wristbands are introduced at Amazon, I will attempt to completely boycott Amazon until they're removed. I don't work at Amazon (nor do I ever intend to), but in my opinion the wristbands would be a step too far in reducing working conditions, and set a damaging precedent.
- krapp 9y ago
  > No worries; folks won't be judged or measured as robots. Not an issue. This is Amazon we're talking about... their warehouse workers are already "judged or measured as robots." An efficiency metric based on tracking a worker's hand movements within standardized axes of freedom is totally something they would do if they felt there was money to be made.
- wycy 9y ago
  Of course they will. Do you even capitalism?
- bbctol 9y ago
  Yeah, bosses have never expected workers to work unreasonably hard.
ballenf 9y ago
If you've ever worked in such an environment, good workers welcome such measurement tools. So often slackers can befriend management and push off work on others without detection. It is very difficult to monitor performance in a fair and equitable manner without taking into account nepotism, racism, etc.
- Clubber 9y ago
  >good workers welcome such measurement tools. I find that hard to believe, at least a full time monitoring wrist band. Good workers like metrics, but of course, every metric can be gamed. They aren't as valuable as you might think they are.
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    Good workers expect to have good managers. Good managers can gauge the worth of their workers without resorting to rigid procedures with constant robotic surveillance. If I am ordered to wear a monitoring wristband, I will naturally suspect that my manager is an idiot. The first test would likely to be to pair up with another worker and swap wristbands. Further along, try putting both wristbands on one wrist for short periods of time, such as when someone is using the bathroom. I'd probably also try bracelets with magnets on them and wrapping the wristband in foil. If they are universally hated by the workers, spraying them all with histamine before the shift starts would result in visible skin irritation under the bands, and a video of said irritation posted to social media might get them withdrawn for a while. Good workers like to be respected and valued as human beings. Treat them like fungible cogs at your own peril.
yorwba 9y ago
I get that this might be different in the US, but in Europe, there usually are minimum requirements for break time to ensure that workers aren't overly strained. E.g. screen workers should take regular short breaks to rest their eyes. In that case, tracking could actually be beneficial by making sure that nobody sacrifices their break time to improve their quotas. It doesn't have to be used for detrimental purposes (although it's probably unrealistic to assume that Amazon will be so benevolent).
- JBlue42 9y ago
  We have something like that in law at least (a certain time allotted after 4 hrs of work or some such, lunch) but rarely isn't ever that direct. People being people will get up, walk around, get coffee, take a piss, etc. Beyond that, at least in office work, you'll regularly see folks eating lunch at their desk and working through it even though by law they're supposed to be 'relieved of all duties'. This isn't because some supervisor said so but because they feel obligated to do so.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    Also, I think that is only reserved for hourly workers. Salaried workers are exempt from many labor laws.
    - JBlue42 9y ago
      Probably depends on the state. CA has better labor laws than most and doesn't seem to apply it different for exempt or non-exempt: https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_mealperiods.htm https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_mealperiods.htm Most places I've worked given an hour by default as part of company policy. My point was that a lot of folks will choose to work through their lunch instead of taking a walk outside or relaxing a little. I recall when one coworker hopped on the Soylent train. They had this whole plan that it would free up their lunch to go do other stuff like go for a bike ride, check out a museum, etc. They essentially ended up chugging the Soylent at their desk and working their entire lunch. Maybe I'm old school but I don't like giving my labor away for free. Work will always be there.

JoeAltmaier 9y ago

So the best workers will be people too. No worries; folks won't be judged or measured as robots. Not an issue.

chris11 9y ago
I think you have more faith in companies than I do. Jobs can have a lot of unreasonable expectations, especially if it is a low wage position with high turnover. And Amazon already has a poor reputation for it's low skilled positions.
jdlyga 9y ago
Management won't have trackers on their every movement. You can take anything out of context to make the best worker look terrible if you look hard enough with that much data.
Clubber 9y ago
My point being even the best workers will need a moment now and then.
- ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
  But really... will they? If this technology was used to find the bottom 10% of workers and correct their behavior or fire them, it would probably be fine. But there are people who ARE able to maintain almost perfect efficiency for huge lengths of time. Everyone will be measured and everyone will be expected to preform. People in the "normal" range will be made to feel inadequate. Everyone will be getting prescriptions for ADHD meds to compete with the top performers. The top performers will then feel pressured to get the same medications in order to maintain their advantage. This technology could put a lot of pressure on the system. And it could lead to people eliminating small breaks that might be necessary to maintain their mental health. I guess time will tell. I'm hoping companies use the idea responsibly and think about the long term incentives they create. But that doesn't seem likely.
  - beamatronic 9y ago
    >> Everyone will be getting >> prescriptions for ADHD meds to >> compete with the top performers. We are already there and have been for years, for getting into elite universities. Perhaps not yet for warehouse or fast food positions.
  - ZenoArrow 9y ago
    This isn't just a way to find the slowest employees, this is a way to optimise the performance of all workers. Consider if we have three employees. Person X is the fastest, Person Z is the slowest, and Person Y is somewhere in the middle. Consider how management will treat Person Y. For example, both of these sentiments are likely to be used by management to motivate/control Person Y: "Person X is performing at a quicker rate than you, what can we do to close the gap" "Don't be like Person Z or you're at risk of losing your job" If you think that a company like Amazon will do nothing about mediocre performance, you're almost certainly mistaken. To be honest, if these wristbands are introduced at Amazon, I will attempt to completely boycott Amazon until they're removed. I don't work at Amazon (nor do I ever intend to), but in my opinion the wristbands would be a step too far in reducing working conditions, and set a damaging precedent.
krapp 9y ago
> No worries; folks won't be judged or measured as robots. Not an issue. This is Amazon we're talking about... their warehouse workers are already "judged or measured as robots." An efficiency metric based on tracking a worker's hand movements within standardized axes of freedom is totally something they would do if they felt there was money to be made.
wycy 9y ago
Of course they will. Do you even capitalism?
bbctol 9y ago
Yeah, bosses have never expected workers to work unreasonably hard.

ballenf 9y ago

If you've ever worked in such an environment, good workers welcome such measurement tools. So often slackers can befriend management and push off work on others without detection. It is very difficult to monitor performance in a fair and equitable manner without taking into account nepotism, racism, etc.

Clubber 9y ago
>good workers welcome such measurement tools. I find that hard to believe, at least a full time monitoring wrist band. Good workers like metrics, but of course, every metric can be gamed. They aren't as valuable as you might think they are.
- logfromblammo 9y ago
  Good workers expect to have good managers. Good managers can gauge the worth of their workers without resorting to rigid procedures with constant robotic surveillance. If I am ordered to wear a monitoring wristband, I will naturally suspect that my manager is an idiot. The first test would likely to be to pair up with another worker and swap wristbands. Further along, try putting both wristbands on one wrist for short periods of time, such as when someone is using the bathroom. I'd probably also try bracelets with magnets on them and wrapping the wristband in foil. If they are universally hated by the workers, spraying them all with histamine before the shift starts would result in visible skin irritation under the bands, and a video of said irritation posted to social media might get them withdrawn for a while. Good workers like to be respected and valued as human beings. Treat them like fungible cogs at your own peril.

yorwba 9y ago

I get that this might be different in the US, but in Europe, there usually are minimum requirements for break time to ensure that workers aren't overly strained. E.g. screen workers should take regular short breaks to rest their eyes. In that case, tracking could actually be beneficial by making sure that nobody sacrifices their break time to improve their quotas. It doesn't have to be used for detrimental purposes (although it's probably unrealistic to assume that Amazon will be so benevolent).

JBlue42 9y ago
We have something like that in law at least (a certain time allotted after 4 hrs of work or some such, lunch) but rarely isn't ever that direct. People being people will get up, walk around, get coffee, take a piss, etc. Beyond that, at least in office work, you'll regularly see folks eating lunch at their desk and working through it even though by law they're supposed to be 'relieved of all duties'. This isn't because some supervisor said so but because they feel obligated to do so.
- Clubber 9y ago
  Also, I think that is only reserved for hourly workers. Salaried workers are exempt from many labor laws.
  - JBlue42 9y ago
    Probably depends on the state. CA has better labor laws than most and doesn't seem to apply it different for exempt or non-exempt: https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_mealperiods.htm https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_mealperiods.htm Most places I've worked given an hour by default as part of company policy. My point was that a lot of folks will choose to work through their lunch instead of taking a walk outside or relaxing a little. I recall when one coworker hopped on the Soylent train. They had this whole plan that it would free up their lunch to go do other stuff like go for a bike ride, check out a museum, etc. They essentially ended up chugging the Soylent at their desk and working their entire lunch. Maybe I'm old school but I don't like giving my labor away for free. Work will always be there.