4 ms·

In pursuit of tortoise smugglers

28 points by kawera 9y ago

RcouF1uZ4gsC 9y ago
That article smacked so much of colonialism and foreign interference. Foreign donors create an organization that goes around giving orders to the Madagascar police so that they can put more if their citizens in prison. I bet if we looked closely at these poaching laws, I bet they also were heavily influenced by foreign money and pressure as well. It seems like many NGO's believe that brown people don't know how to place the correct priority on their wildlife so the try to use their overwhelming resources to defacto control the government. Can you imagine the outrage if an foreign organization came in and told the FBI how they should run their investigations and demanded a representative always be with them to make sure they are doing what the NGO wants?
- kurthr 9y ago
  Aren't the foreign smugglers/buyers just as colonial and interfering... only they do it with different money to a different group of desperate people. Once you accept that it's ok for foreign money to align the goals of "brown people", it's not that strange that NGOs and with their diabolical support of anti-poaching laws would compete with smugglers. It's not property rights, because I see nothing to show that those tortoises were rightfully gained rather than grabbed off of public or even other's private lands. Why find one worse than the other? Why support corrupt cops more than those enforcing the law? Why support Thai over Israeli? p.s. I can read about a foreign power covertly using money and propaganda to control the FBI in the Washington Post.
  - jstanley 9y ago
    I don't have strong opinions either for or against poaching animals, but: > It's not property rights, because I see nothing to show that those tortoises were rightfully gained rather than grabbed off of public or even other's private lands. People are innocent until proven guilty. I might see nothing to show that your shirt was rightfully gained rather than grabbed off a member of the public or even another's private land, but you've got no obligation to show me that. If I want to interfere, the obligation is upon me to show that it is stolen.
    - kurthr 9y ago
      We arent talking about someone's pet. If it was illegal to ship shirts without a license, and I'm shipping hundreds of them dangerously packed in a huge suitcase... then maybe it is my obligation. Who's to say they aren't carrying salmonella and it infects someone on the plane? For example you can't take more than $10k in cash out of the US (or into most countries) without declaring it. Is that an example of colonialism?
      - jstanley 9y ago
        Being illegal to ship shirts without a licence, and illegal to ship more than $10k without declaring it, are both perfect examples of invasive regulations making criminals out of harmless members of the public.

28 points by kawera 9y ago

That article smacked so much of colonialism and foreign interference. Foreign donors create an organization that goes around giving orders to the Madagascar police so that they can put more if their citizens in prison. I bet if we looked closely at these poaching laws, I bet they also were heavily influenced by foreign money and pressure as well. It seems like many NGO's believe that brown people don't know how to place the correct priority on their wildlife so the try to use their overwhelming resources to defacto control the government. Can you imagine the outrage if an foreign organization came in and told the FBI how they should run their investigations and demanded a representative always be with them to make sure they are doing what the NGO wants?

kurthr 9y ago
Aren't the foreign smugglers/buyers just as colonial and interfering... only they do it with different money to a different group of desperate people. Once you accept that it's ok for foreign money to align the goals of "brown people", it's not that strange that NGOs and with their diabolical support of anti-poaching laws would compete with smugglers. It's not property rights, because I see nothing to show that those tortoises were rightfully gained rather than grabbed off of public or even other's private lands. Why find one worse than the other? Why support corrupt cops more than those enforcing the law? Why support Thai over Israeli? p.s. I can read about a foreign power covertly using money and propaganda to control the FBI in the Washington Post.
- jstanley 9y ago
  I don't have strong opinions either for or against poaching animals, but: > It's not property rights, because I see nothing to show that those tortoises were rightfully gained rather than grabbed off of public or even other's private lands. People are innocent until proven guilty. I might see nothing to show that your shirt was rightfully gained rather than grabbed off a member of the public or even another's private land, but you've got no obligation to show me that. If I want to interfere, the obligation is upon me to show that it is stolen.
  - kurthr 9y ago
    We arent talking about someone's pet. If it was illegal to ship shirts without a license, and I'm shipping hundreds of them dangerously packed in a huge suitcase... then maybe it is my obligation. Who's to say they aren't carrying salmonella and it infects someone on the plane? For example you can't take more than $10k in cash out of the US (or into most countries) without declaring it. Is that an example of colonialism?
    - jstanley 9y ago
      Being illegal to ship shirts without a licence, and illegal to ship more than $10k without declaring it, are both perfect examples of invasive regulations making criminals out of harmless members of the public.