7 ms·

Homeless Experiment

104 points by organicgrant 16y ago

jessor 16y ago
Unfortunately, no one can be told what homelessness is. You have to feel it for yourself. It's like putting on heavy weights and thick glasses because you want to know how it is to be old. The worst part is the psychological one, imho. He can go home. All bills paid, cosy warm room, roof over his head. But to know that you "failed in life", can't provide for yourself like so many others, have nowhere to go... I guess that's the real homelessness. I recently experienced not getting paid for several months. It's quite interesting what this does to your head.
- chopsueyar 16y ago
  I would have shived him for his 4g iphone while he slept on his makeshift cardboard bed under the bridge. I'd make the shiv from a melted 3g iphone.
- jdc 16y ago
  Poverty is a state of mind.
  - drunkpotato 16y ago
    Pithy aphorisms are the state of a thoughtless mind.
    - jdc 16y ago
      I thought it was a concise was of stating that constricting environmental factors have a way damaging one's self-esteem to the point of preventing him from clearly thinking to improve his circumstances.
      - drunkpotato 16y ago
        That is much better put. Your original formulation did not convey that connotation.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
  - jdc 16y ago
    If you've down-voted me, why not articulate why you disagree?
- dfh 16y ago
  "But still you'll never get it right, cos when you're laid in bed at night, watching roaches climb the wall, if you call your Dad he could stop it all." However, I guess it's not either or but a spectrum - although never completely homeless, I'm sure he felt more homeless than usual.
  - buro9 16y ago
    > more homeless than usual. This is what going on vacation is, or camping out. Pulp got it spot on, a very fine choice of lyric there... it hit the mark and hit it hard. I've been homeless. It's an integral part of my identity that during my youth my life led me onto the streets for almost 2 years (inc 2 winters). When I put myself on the street I had options. It was an escape route from a family environment I wish on no-one. But I had options. I could've still called people up, I could've still gone to another family member somewhere else. Over time though, the options narrow. You've already lost possessions, wealth, means, but then you lose even the view that you could reach out to anyone. There really is a trip-wire beyond which hopelessness exists. If you think you're experiencing homelessness just by sleeping in a cheap sleeping bag and not carrying your debit card, think again. Get rid of the phone, burn your bridges, discard your possessions... dig a hole so cavernous that getting out is to climb a mountain, and don't leave yourself with an escape ladder or means to call for help. Only when your options are so few and so tenuous that they barely exist, only when you are so focused on your next meal and where you'll be warm and safe that night, only then with nothing at all to help you will you feel what the homeless feel. And as for Pulp, Common People captured something that exists in that desolate state. The fact that with everything gone, so too are the cares and caution. It is possible to be happy on the street, it is possible for it to be liberating to not have any options... in my view options were also constraints, things that prevent you from doing something else. You don't get the courage to attack new things if there's an easier option, without options attacking the hard things is all that is left.
    - prewett 16y ago
      So if you lost the idea that you could reach out to someone, what got you out of homelessness?
chopsueyar 16y ago
If you rub coffee grounds on your face, it will look like dirt. There was an experiment like this in the City paper in DC, many years ago.
- AngryParsley 16y ago
  That's good advice for when you can't find any dirt and there are a bunch of coffee grounds lying around.
  - noonespecial 16y ago
    Quick, you're trapped in a Starbucks, you need to look homeless, what do you do?.
  - chopsueyar 16y ago
    Not sure if you read the article but he talks about not looking homeless enough. Even after attempting to grow a unibrow, not shaving, and not showering for an extended period of time, he says: "There is a liquor store RIGHT across the street from the homeless shelter. I'm talking maybe 25 steps away max. As I was buying the bourbon I asked the clerk if, "He gets many of us homeless people in here." He responded, "Nope, I don't get many of them in here." Puzzled why he classified them as "Them" instead of "You" I asked if he thought I was homeless. He immediately replied, "Nope, you don't have the tell-tale signs of a homeless person." I was a bit relieved and disappointed by this. Relieved because I didn't REALLLLYY look homeless (despite entering his store with a beard, ripped/dirty shirt, carrying a garbage bag and asking for only bottles made out of plastic). Disappointed because perhaps I didn't do a good enough job of disguising myself...." He aslo mentions that while sleeping under the bridge, he has to worry about where to go to the bathroom. By this logical conclusion, you can assume he has a fairly good chance of finding urine tainted dirt. The coffee grinds are good because they are clean. Go back to your Clouds, sir.
- sp332 16y ago
  Having dirt on your face does not make you look homeless. Just one example: http://steampunkworkshop.com/yr-doin-it-right-3-sweep http://steampunkworkshop.com/yr-doin-it-right-3-sweep
robryan 16y ago
Interesting point about homelessness especially for people around this site, if you can use your skills to make money online without relying on any single source you are at a much lower risk of becoming homeless through a set of bad circumstances than someone who can only really convert their skills to a decent income through a more permanent employer.
dododo 16y ago
george orwell (who also wrote 1984) conducted a similar experiment in the late 1920s and wrote a book about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Out_in_Paris_and_London http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Out_in_Paris_and_Londo...
- nhebb 16y ago
  So did Tyra Banks - http://www.wwtdd.com/2008/02/tyra-banks-knows-what-its-like/ http://www.wwtdd.com/2008/02/tyra-banks-knows-what-its-like/
  - telemachos 16y ago
    When I first saw the title of this post, I immediately thought of Seneca (the Roman Stoic writer) playing at slavery and poverty. I haven't read the Seneca in a long time, but my strong impression when I read it was that he trivialized the whole thing by dressing in rags for a day once a year and proving to himself he could handle it. I'm guessing that your comment is implying something like that about Banks, Orwell and this blogger. I don't know (and don't much care) what Tyra Banks did and I need to read the blogger more fully (I've only skimmed it), but Orwell spent years of his life (at different times) investigating poverty. The simulated or forced poverty he underwent in England was measured in months, not days or weeks (in 1927 and 1928). He also explicitly discussed (and agonized over) how "real" his poverty was given that he could wire home for money (and sometimes did, as I recall). I think that simulation can only go so far, but not all simulations are equal.
    - nhebb 16y ago
      I was making a tongue cheek comment about Tyra. It had no reflection on Orwell.
      - telemachos 16y ago
        My misunderstanding then: apparently I feel more strongly about George Orwell than I knew.
peterwwillis 16y ago
mainly i feel sorry for this guy because of how out of touch he is. he packs more to be homeless than i pack to go camping and basically tries to emulate whatever he finds to be a stereotypical homeless person. maybe he never worked in food service and thus didn't know american dumpsters are goldmines of safe, edible food? more than anything, this seems like a feeble attempt at a rich person to do something they consider "crazy" so they can have a cool story to tell their friends over caviar. "oh wow, look how dirty i was! ha ha!" this guy needs to get over himself. there's lots of reasons why people become homeless (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness#Contributing_causes_of_homelessness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness#Contributing_cause...) and most well-off people simply don't think about the kind of problems people have to deal with just to survive. homelessness is a multi-faceted and complex issue which encompasses millions of people in different situations. there is no way to "see how they live", unless maybe you got some head trauma, a broken leg, asthma and were dumped somewhere you didn't know with no support system and no job skills (compounded perhaps by a self-medicating drug or alcohol habit). do you want to help the homeless? tell your congressmen to pass laws that help them with their real life problems they need to overcome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness#Problems_faced_by_people_who_are_homeless http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness#Problems_faced_by_...) before they can try to sustain themselves with a job and housing. donate to organizations which provide food and shelter to many instead of handing out money to individuals. give old clothes and supplies (like the backpack & sleeping bag he tossed) to goodwill or a local shelter. mainly the way people can help the homeless is by putting forth resources to help people learn how to elevate themselves above simply surviving, which most people eventually settle for compared to what seems like the immense difficulty of getting a stable job.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  According to the article, most of the homeless he encountered didn't have the problems you describe. Black Mike, for instance, was fit enough to defeat Nev in a slap-boxing match. The author also never called upon his support system or job skills, so I'm not sure how they are relevant. Also, according to his experience at various shelters, he seems to have a backpack full of stuff comparable to other homeless people. Some of the items (e.g., toothbrush) were given out free at the homeless shelter. According to you, various organizations will give out other items "like the backpack & sleeping bag he tossed". The only item that seems out of place is the laptop/phone, but according to the article: "There are two guys openly playing on their laptops here [a shelter] and one guy with a portable DVD player watching a movie. Many people have cell phones and MP3 players. " Why do you feel his attempt is "feeble"?
samg_ 16y ago
This guy needs to watch Preston Sturges's "Sullivan's Travels."
KoZeN 16y ago
Am I the only person deeply shocked by this guy’s significant level of ignorance? The first 70 to 80% of his article could essentially be surmised as ‘Hey, homelessness is easy as long as you put some thought into it.’ There is a reason homelessness is a vicious cycle and he didn’t even come close to discovering that. Fine, he met some truly decent, capable people living on the streets but the vast majority are there purely because they are stuck in said cycle. Be it alcohol, drugs, criminal convictions or a combination of the aforementioned, most people on the streets are there for a reason beyond their immediate control and not because they were simply the victim of bad luck. Most "real" homeless people who have temporarily fallen on hard times rarely ask for money in any of these ways. This summed it up for me. ‘real’ homeless people…that attitude actually hurts my brain. I’ll give the guy credit for giving it a go but he has seriously missed the point. SOURCE: 1st hand experience for just under a year of my life. Unquestionably the hardest year of my life.
- dgreensp 16y ago
  So "bad luck" would be a reason within their immediate control? It sounds like you and the blogger are both saying that most people asking for money on the street need a lot more than money to change their situation. I often think about this myself when I pass one; what if I gave them $100? $1000? Would it get them off the street? What's your take on this?
  - KoZeN 16y ago
    The fact is, money won't get the majority of people off the street. That being said, when I give money to homeless people I don't give it with the hope that they may take the first step towards assimilating with regular society, I give it with the hope that it may pay for their next meal or even help towards putting a roof over their head for the night. I can personally guarantee you that if someone handed me £100k it would change my life exponentially and allow me to turn things around because I have the drive and determination to do so. If the same person handed me £1k it wouldn't change my life but it would relieve a lot of pressure when it comes to bills and so on. Be it £100,000 or £1,000, either donation would be hugely appreciated and help me enormously. For someone who has no money & doesn't know where their next meal is coming from then I guarantee they will have the same attitude if you took a couple of zero's off those amounts.
cjoh 16y ago
I up voted this article because it is a constant reminder of the difference between acting and doing. Also, i loved the part where he was "planning to be homeless" and mentioned that in the case of an emergency, he carried instructions in his wallet to take him to a private hospital, not a public one. Classy.
wallflower 16y ago
The sad thing about homelessness is that some of them are mentally ill - which is why there are homeless. My friend tells me about the regular homeless men and woman who camp out near the Hospital ER where she works...hoping to be admitted, but never being taken in for treatment.
5teev 16y ago
> So should you give money to bums on the street? > In short, my answer is: NO. Ignoring the tacky epithet "bums on the street" I disagree with this conclusion. Giving someone money demonstrates respect for them as a fellow human being: "I trust you to use this as you see fit." How would you feel if instead of getting paid for your work, you were told where to live, what and how much to eat, and so on? And now you want a beer? Sorry! Nev wonders why Black Mike isn't more grateful for his gifts. Maybe instead of deciding for him, "Here's what you can do, and here's the tools to do it," he could give him the money and take him on a shopping spree, advising but not dictating.
cjy 16y ago
This reminds me of the book "Scratch Beginnings" except that the guy in the book was gone for a year and had the goal of getting a stable job, car etc. It's a good read.
organicgrant 16y ago
Agree or disagree with the author's methods, I like anyone who pushes the boundaries of their current existence. Call it "Getting out of your comfort zone", "Thinking outside the box", or any other bullshit buzzphrase - Pushing beyond previous experience is the only thing that matters in life.

104 points by organicgrant 16y ago

Unfortunately, no one can be told what homelessness is. You have to feel it for yourself. It's like putting on heavy weights and thick glasses because you want to know how it is to be old. The worst part is the psychological one, imho. He can go home. All bills paid, cosy warm room, roof over his head. But to know that you "failed in life", can't provide for yourself like so many others, have nowhere to go... I guess that's the real homelessness. I recently experienced not getting paid for several months. It's quite interesting what this does to your head.

chopsueyar 16y ago
I would have shived him for his 4g iphone while he slept on his makeshift cardboard bed under the bridge. I'd make the shiv from a melted 3g iphone.
jdc 16y ago
Poverty is a state of mind.
- drunkpotato 16y ago
  Pithy aphorisms are the state of a thoughtless mind.
  - jdc 16y ago
    I thought it was a concise was of stating that constricting environmental factors have a way damaging one's self-esteem to the point of preventing him from clearly thinking to improve his circumstances.
    - drunkpotato 16y ago
      That is much better put. Your original formulation did not convey that connotation.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
- jdc 16y ago
  If you've down-voted me, why not articulate why you disagree?
dfh 16y ago
"But still you'll never get it right, cos when you're laid in bed at night, watching roaches climb the wall, if you call your Dad he could stop it all." However, I guess it's not either or but a spectrum - although never completely homeless, I'm sure he felt more homeless than usual.
- buro9 16y ago
  > more homeless than usual. This is what going on vacation is, or camping out. Pulp got it spot on, a very fine choice of lyric there... it hit the mark and hit it hard. I've been homeless. It's an integral part of my identity that during my youth my life led me onto the streets for almost 2 years (inc 2 winters). When I put myself on the street I had options. It was an escape route from a family environment I wish on no-one. But I had options. I could've still called people up, I could've still gone to another family member somewhere else. Over time though, the options narrow. You've already lost possessions, wealth, means, but then you lose even the view that you could reach out to anyone. There really is a trip-wire beyond which hopelessness exists. If you think you're experiencing homelessness just by sleeping in a cheap sleeping bag and not carrying your debit card, think again. Get rid of the phone, burn your bridges, discard your possessions... dig a hole so cavernous that getting out is to climb a mountain, and don't leave yourself with an escape ladder or means to call for help. Only when your options are so few and so tenuous that they barely exist, only when you are so focused on your next meal and where you'll be warm and safe that night, only then with nothing at all to help you will you feel what the homeless feel. And as for Pulp, Common People captured something that exists in that desolate state. The fact that with everything gone, so too are the cares and caution. It is possible to be happy on the street, it is possible for it to be liberating to not have any options... in my view options were also constraints, things that prevent you from doing something else. You don't get the courage to attack new things if there's an easier option, without options attacking the hard things is all that is left.
  - prewett 16y ago
    So if you lost the idea that you could reach out to someone, what got you out of homelessness?

chopsueyar 16y ago

If you rub coffee grounds on your face, it will look like dirt. There was an experiment like this in the City paper in DC, many years ago.

AngryParsley 16y ago
That's good advice for when you can't find any dirt and there are a bunch of coffee grounds lying around.
- noonespecial 16y ago
  Quick, you're trapped in a Starbucks, you need to look homeless, what do you do?.
- chopsueyar 16y ago
  Not sure if you read the article but he talks about not looking homeless enough. Even after attempting to grow a unibrow, not shaving, and not showering for an extended period of time, he says: "There is a liquor store RIGHT across the street from the homeless shelter. I'm talking maybe 25 steps away max. As I was buying the bourbon I asked the clerk if, "He gets many of us homeless people in here." He responded, "Nope, I don't get many of them in here." Puzzled why he classified them as "Them" instead of "You" I asked if he thought I was homeless. He immediately replied, "Nope, you don't have the tell-tale signs of a homeless person." I was a bit relieved and disappointed by this. Relieved because I didn't REALLLLYY look homeless (despite entering his store with a beard, ripped/dirty shirt, carrying a garbage bag and asking for only bottles made out of plastic). Disappointed because perhaps I didn't do a good enough job of disguising myself...." He aslo mentions that while sleeping under the bridge, he has to worry about where to go to the bathroom. By this logical conclusion, you can assume he has a fairly good chance of finding urine tainted dirt. The coffee grinds are good because they are clean. Go back to your Clouds, sir.
sp332 16y ago
Having dirt on your face does not make you look homeless. Just one example: http://steampunkworkshop.com/yr-doin-it-right-3-sweep http://steampunkworkshop.com/yr-doin-it-right-3-sweep

robryan 16y ago

Interesting point about homelessness especially for people around this site, if you can use your skills to make money online without relying on any single source you are at a much lower risk of becoming homeless through a set of bad circumstances than someone who can only really convert their skills to a decent income through a more permanent employer.

dododo 16y ago

george orwell (who also wrote 1984) conducted a similar experiment in the late 1920s and wrote a book about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Out_in_Paris_and_London http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Out_in_Paris_and_Londo...

nhebb 16y ago
So did Tyra Banks - http://www.wwtdd.com/2008/02/tyra-banks-knows-what-its-like/ http://www.wwtdd.com/2008/02/tyra-banks-knows-what-its-like/
- telemachos 16y ago
  When I first saw the title of this post, I immediately thought of Seneca (the Roman Stoic writer) playing at slavery and poverty. I haven't read the Seneca in a long time, but my strong impression when I read it was that he trivialized the whole thing by dressing in rags for a day once a year and proving to himself he could handle it. I'm guessing that your comment is implying something like that about Banks, Orwell and this blogger. I don't know (and don't much care) what Tyra Banks did and I need to read the blogger more fully (I've only skimmed it), but Orwell spent years of his life (at different times) investigating poverty. The simulated or forced poverty he underwent in England was measured in months, not days or weeks (in 1927 and 1928). He also explicitly discussed (and agonized over) how "real" his poverty was given that he could wire home for money (and sometimes did, as I recall). I think that simulation can only go so far, but not all simulations are equal.
  - nhebb 16y ago
    I was making a tongue cheek comment about Tyra. It had no reflection on Orwell.
    - telemachos 16y ago
      My misunderstanding then: apparently I feel more strongly about George Orwell than I knew.

peterwwillis 16y ago

mainly i feel sorry for this guy because of how out of touch he is. he packs more to be homeless than i pack to go camping and basically tries to emulate whatever he finds to be a stereotypical homeless person. maybe he never worked in food service and thus didn't know american dumpsters are goldmines of safe, edible food? more than anything, this seems like a feeble attempt at a rich person to do something they consider "crazy" so they can have a cool story to tell their friends over caviar. "oh wow, look how dirty i was! ha ha!" this guy needs to get over himself. there's lots of reasons why people become homeless (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness#Contributing_causes_of_homelessness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness#Contributing_cause...) and most well-off people simply don't think about the kind of problems people have to deal with just to survive. homelessness is a multi-faceted and complex issue which encompasses millions of people in different situations. there is no way to "see how they live", unless maybe you got some head trauma, a broken leg, asthma and were dumped somewhere you didn't know with no support system and no job skills (compounded perhaps by a self-medicating drug or alcohol habit). do you want to help the homeless? tell your congressmen to pass laws that help them with their real life problems they need to overcome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness#Problems_faced_by_people_who_are_homeless http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness#Problems_faced_by_...) before they can try to sustain themselves with a job and housing. donate to organizations which provide food and shelter to many instead of handing out money to individuals. give old clothes and supplies (like the backpack & sleeping bag he tossed) to goodwill or a local shelter. mainly the way people can help the homeless is by putting forth resources to help people learn how to elevate themselves above simply surviving, which most people eventually settle for compared to what seems like the immense difficulty of getting a stable job.

yummyfajitas 16y ago
According to the article, most of the homeless he encountered didn't have the problems you describe. Black Mike, for instance, was fit enough to defeat Nev in a slap-boxing match. The author also never called upon his support system or job skills, so I'm not sure how they are relevant. Also, according to his experience at various shelters, he seems to have a backpack full of stuff comparable to other homeless people. Some of the items (e.g., toothbrush) were given out free at the homeless shelter. According to you, various organizations will give out other items "like the backpack & sleeping bag he tossed". The only item that seems out of place is the laptop/phone, but according to the article: "There are two guys openly playing on their laptops here [a shelter] and one guy with a portable DVD player watching a movie. Many people have cell phones and MP3 players. " Why do you feel his attempt is "feeble"?

samg_ 16y ago

This guy needs to watch Preston Sturges's "Sullivan's Travels."

KoZeN 16y ago

Am I the only person deeply shocked by this guy’s significant level of ignorance? The first 70 to 80% of his article could essentially be surmised as ‘Hey, homelessness is easy as long as you put some thought into it.’ There is a reason homelessness is a vicious cycle and he didn’t even come close to discovering that. Fine, he met some truly decent, capable people living on the streets but the vast majority are there purely because they are stuck in said cycle. Be it alcohol, drugs, criminal convictions or a combination of the aforementioned, most people on the streets are there for a reason beyond their immediate control and not because they were simply the victim of bad luck. Most "real" homeless people who have temporarily fallen on hard times rarely ask for money in any of these ways. This summed it up for me. ‘real’ homeless people…that attitude actually hurts my brain. I’ll give the guy credit for giving it a go but he has seriously missed the point. SOURCE: 1st hand experience for just under a year of my life. Unquestionably the hardest year of my life.

dgreensp 16y ago
So "bad luck" would be a reason within their immediate control? It sounds like you and the blogger are both saying that most people asking for money on the street need a lot more than money to change their situation. I often think about this myself when I pass one; what if I gave them $100? $1000? Would it get them off the street? What's your take on this?
- KoZeN 16y ago
  The fact is, money won't get the majority of people off the street. That being said, when I give money to homeless people I don't give it with the hope that they may take the first step towards assimilating with regular society, I give it with the hope that it may pay for their next meal or even help towards putting a roof over their head for the night. I can personally guarantee you that if someone handed me £100k it would change my life exponentially and allow me to turn things around because I have the drive and determination to do so. If the same person handed me £1k it wouldn't change my life but it would relieve a lot of pressure when it comes to bills and so on. Be it £100,000 or £1,000, either donation would be hugely appreciated and help me enormously. For someone who has no money & doesn't know where their next meal is coming from then I guarantee they will have the same attitude if you took a couple of zero's off those amounts.

cjoh 16y ago

I up voted this article because it is a constant reminder of the difference between acting and doing. Also, i loved the part where he was "planning to be homeless" and mentioned that in the case of an emergency, he carried instructions in his wallet to take him to a private hospital, not a public one. Classy.

wallflower 16y ago

The sad thing about homelessness is that some of them are mentally ill - which is why there are homeless. My friend tells me about the regular homeless men and woman who camp out near the Hospital ER where she works...hoping to be admitted, but never being taken in for treatment.

5teev 16y ago

> So should you give money to bums on the street? > In short, my answer is: NO. Ignoring the tacky epithet "bums on the street" I disagree with this conclusion. Giving someone money demonstrates respect for them as a fellow human being: "I trust you to use this as you see fit." How would you feel if instead of getting paid for your work, you were told where to live, what and how much to eat, and so on? And now you want a beer? Sorry! Nev wonders why Black Mike isn't more grateful for his gifts. Maybe instead of deciding for him, "Here's what you can do, and here's the tools to do it," he could give him the money and take him on a shopping spree, advising but not dictating.

cjy 16y ago

This reminds me of the book "Scratch Beginnings" except that the guy in the book was gone for a year and had the goal of getting a stable job, car etc. It's a good read.

organicgrant 16y ago

Agree or disagree with the author's methods, I like anyone who pushes the boundaries of their current existence. Call it "Getting out of your comfort zone", "Thinking outside the box", or any other bullshit buzzphrase - Pushing beyond previous experience is the only thing that matters in life.