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None of these are problems that a sufficient amount of desperation will not overcome. See: refugees, illegal immigration. When life sucks enough where you are,

None of these are problems that a sufficient amount of desperation will not overcome. See: refugees, illegal immigration. When life sucks enough where you are, lots of people decide to get the heck out, and figure out the plan as they go.

watwut 9y ago
Even Nazi Germany had some Jews stay, often because wanting something does not always makes it feasible. People die while attempting to become refugees. They might have plan, but they don't get to live to see it successful. And once they are in refugee camps and their children unhappy due to no future available to them, will you tell them they should have stayed at home? Illegal immigrants are getting deported, like today.
- cobbzilla 9y ago
  agreed, different people reach the tipping point of desperation at the different times, and sometimes not at all, and sometimes the decision to (or not to) migrate is a bad one, or even a fatal one. History is replete with stories of refugees who have succeeded in their quest for a better life. Yes, survivorship bias says that for every success there are many failures. I'm not judging but merely observing facts: lots of people do in fact migrate despite the many daunting problems they face in doing so, because they believe it is the best possible option for themselves and their families. No one can presume to judge what is best for them but themselves.
  - watwut 9y ago
    Sometimes you are old, poor, weak, sick or care about relative who is old, sick, in prison, have kids you would have to leave behind. Dont have contact among those who could get you out illegally and don't know where to buy fake papers. Sometimes you get caught. When I read stories of succesfull escapes from bad conditions, many also contained multiple cases of people who did not escaped. And most often, the country you are escaping to can deal only with limited number of refugees until it reaches breaking point.
danso 9y ago
So the fact that desperate evacuation to another country is always an option, that means people who feel strong unease about the US's direction are unjustified in their worry?
- cobbzilla 9y ago
  I made no comment on justifying or not justifying particular worries.
  - danso 9y ago
    Then what was your comment about? The head comment was someone complaining that the US is going to shut. The reply was that people would be leaving the country if things were looking bad because "Nothing prevents from moving to a different country." The reply to that was, well, no, actually lots of things prevent people from just leaving the country and finding a new one, which makes that metric a very poor one for. Ensuring diaatisfaction. And your comment was meant to rebut what exactly?
    - cobbzilla 9y ago
      The parent post begins: "A number of things prevents from moving to different countries..." The word "prevent" has connotations of impossibility which weren't warranted.
    - cobbzilla 9y ago
      "The head comment was someone complaining that the US is going to shut." Did I miss this? I don't see this claim anywhere in the thread.

watwut 9y ago

Even Nazi Germany had some Jews stay, often because wanting something does not always makes it feasible. People die while attempting to become refugees. They might have plan, but they don't get to live to see it successful. And once they are in refugee camps and their children unhappy due to no future available to them, will you tell them they should have stayed at home? Illegal immigrants are getting deported, like today.

cobbzilla 9y ago
agreed, different people reach the tipping point of desperation at the different times, and sometimes not at all, and sometimes the decision to (or not to) migrate is a bad one, or even a fatal one. History is replete with stories of refugees who have succeeded in their quest for a better life. Yes, survivorship bias says that for every success there are many failures. I'm not judging but merely observing facts: lots of people do in fact migrate despite the many daunting problems they face in doing so, because they believe it is the best possible option for themselves and their families. No one can presume to judge what is best for them but themselves.
- watwut 9y ago
  Sometimes you are old, poor, weak, sick or care about relative who is old, sick, in prison, have kids you would have to leave behind. Dont have contact among those who could get you out illegally and don't know where to buy fake papers. Sometimes you get caught. When I read stories of succesfull escapes from bad conditions, many also contained multiple cases of people who did not escaped. And most often, the country you are escaping to can deal only with limited number of refugees until it reaches breaking point.

danso 9y ago

So the fact that desperate evacuation to another country is always an option, that means people who feel strong unease about the US's direction are unjustified in their worry?

cobbzilla 9y ago
I made no comment on justifying or not justifying particular worries.
- danso 9y ago
  Then what was your comment about? The head comment was someone complaining that the US is going to shut. The reply was that people would be leaving the country if things were looking bad because "Nothing prevents from moving to a different country." The reply to that was, well, no, actually lots of things prevent people from just leaving the country and finding a new one, which makes that metric a very poor one for. Ensuring diaatisfaction. And your comment was meant to rebut what exactly?
  - cobbzilla 9y ago
    The parent post begins: "A number of things prevents from moving to different countries..." The word "prevent" has connotations of impossibility which weren't warranted.
  - cobbzilla 9y ago
    "The head comment was someone complaining that the US is going to shut." Did I miss this? I don't see this claim anywhere in the thread.