9 ms·

There have been many inquires into this by Swedish journalists over the years, but it's a very dense structure of companies with unclear ownership and structure

There have been many inquires into this by Swedish journalists over the years, but it's a very dense structure of companies with unclear ownership and structure. So who controls it is unknown. It is also a great tax evasion schema since the ownership is a charity (that donates money to "product design"), allowing IKEA to escape vast sums of taxation globally.

pqs 9y ago
But then they put the Swedish flag in front of each shop. What a hypocrisy!
- mseebach 9y ago
  The Swedish flags predates the Swedish welfare state by several hundred years (and IKEA predates it by a couple of decades).
  - pqs 9y ago
    It still seems an hypocrisy to me. In any case, they use the flag as a marketing tool, something which, from my point of view, doesn't show much respect for the flag.
    - mseebach 9y ago
      Being Swedish is about a lot more than paying taxes and maintaining the welfare state. What you're proposing basically amounts to the welfare state and its needs owning the Swedish nation, rather than the other way around.
      - wyager 9y ago
        I think there is an unfortunate belief among many of HN’s primary user demographics that regional identity is the same as what political apparatus controls a region. I think it’s easy to fall into this trap when you and your community lack any kind of coherent cultural origin story, as many Americans do.
    - senorjazz 9y ago
      why should a flag be respected? I believe the US has some law stating it must be, but I think this is fairly unique worldwide.
      - xxpor 9y ago
        The US has the flag code, which are really more guidelines than anything else. Flag burning is perfectly legal here.
  - oblio 9y ago
    The hypocrisy is that IKEA is now registered basically nowhere, technically in the Netherlands, but definitely not in Sweden. How would you feel if Apple would keep portraying itself as an US company after moving its HQ to China? :)
    - mseebach 9y ago
      "registered basically nowhere" != "moving its HQ to China" Registration is a matter of paperwork. Incorporation is a legal fiction. IKEA is a Swedish company for all intents and purposes, except tax liability. Taxation isn't the essence of Swedishness. If Apple did some legal magic and moved its company registration to Sweden (and paid any and all due taxes in Sweden), it still wouldn't make the iPhone a Swedish product (to the extend the iPhone claims a nationality, which is doesn't really, so it's not a great comparison).
- bjourne 9y ago
  Yeah, I think that is a little rich of IKEA. They get tons of goodwill from the Swedish system but contributes very little to it themselves. For example, the Swedish King or some government official is often present when IKEA opens a new store somewhere in the world. If an new one is opened in Sweden, the local politicians help them out by adding bus stops and even new bus lines servicing it. It's kind of crazy given that IKEA in reality is a Dutch charity for tax reasons. At this point in time, IKEA is about as Swedish as Media Markt.
expertentipp 9y ago
Pyramidal Swedish masterpiece of charity.
charlesdm 9y ago
Avoidance, not evasion. If you're a very frugal person, it seems pretty normal to hate taxes. No point in saving on everything, yet then throwing x% away in taxes (yes, I am aware taxes fund a lot of good things, but at the same time a lot of money is wasted -- I'm sure Kamprad thought he could better manage and deploy that money)
- andrepd 9y ago
  Oh nice, if he thought he could use the money better, then sure, please carry on not paying taxes. Can I do the same? Or is that a privilege reserved for the mega-rich? Or let's call a spade a spade, and let's call tax evasion tax evasion.
  - ptaipale 9y ago
    Sure, call tax evasion tax evasion, but AFAIK Kamprad wasn't doing it. Authorities go very hard against tax evasion, the illegal thing. Tax avoidance is by definition things that are legal, not tax evasion.
    - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
      In fact authorities are pretty lenient on tax evasion by the hyper-rich. The number of convictions and jail sentences isn't zero, but given the sums involved it's pitifully low. This is partly a resource problem. If you can pay advisors to create an impenetrable network of shell companies through which money disappears five levels down, you can pay lawyers to defend you if something goes wrong. The authorities are far more likely to go after - and jail - sole traders, smaller SMEs and consultants for five or six figure transgressions than near-billionaires with six, seven, or eight figure creative accounting.
      - ptaipale 9y ago
        It's not only relevant what the sums involved are. It is very relevant whether laws are broken, and how clear the lawbreaking is. Thus you can have large sums involved, but may find out that law wasn't broken, so there is no conviction. This is as it should be.
icebraining 9y ago
that donates money to "product design" They also fund programs by Save the Children: http://www.savethechildren.org/site/c.8rKLIXMGIpI4E/b.8275809/k.BB87/IKEA.htm http://www.savethechildren.org/site/c.8rKLIXMGIpI4E/b.827580...
Scarblac 9y ago
> allowing IKEA to escape vast sums of taxation globally. At the cost of not being able to access it at all anymore!

pqs 9y ago

But then they put the Swedish flag in front of each shop. What a hypocrisy!

mseebach 9y ago
The Swedish flags predates the Swedish welfare state by several hundred years (and IKEA predates it by a couple of decades).
- pqs 9y ago
  It still seems an hypocrisy to me. In any case, they use the flag as a marketing tool, something which, from my point of view, doesn't show much respect for the flag.
  - mseebach 9y ago
    Being Swedish is about a lot more than paying taxes and maintaining the welfare state. What you're proposing basically amounts to the welfare state and its needs owning the Swedish nation, rather than the other way around.
    - wyager 9y ago
      I think there is an unfortunate belief among many of HN’s primary user demographics that regional identity is the same as what political apparatus controls a region. I think it’s easy to fall into this trap when you and your community lack any kind of coherent cultural origin story, as many Americans do.
  - senorjazz 9y ago
    why should a flag be respected? I believe the US has some law stating it must be, but I think this is fairly unique worldwide.
    - xxpor 9y ago
      The US has the flag code, which are really more guidelines than anything else. Flag burning is perfectly legal here.
- oblio 9y ago
  The hypocrisy is that IKEA is now registered basically nowhere, technically in the Netherlands, but definitely not in Sweden. How would you feel if Apple would keep portraying itself as an US company after moving its HQ to China? :)
  - mseebach 9y ago
    "registered basically nowhere" != "moving its HQ to China" Registration is a matter of paperwork. Incorporation is a legal fiction. IKEA is a Swedish company for all intents and purposes, except tax liability. Taxation isn't the essence of Swedishness. If Apple did some legal magic and moved its company registration to Sweden (and paid any and all due taxes in Sweden), it still wouldn't make the iPhone a Swedish product (to the extend the iPhone claims a nationality, which is doesn't really, so it's not a great comparison).
bjourne 9y ago
Yeah, I think that is a little rich of IKEA. They get tons of goodwill from the Swedish system but contributes very little to it themselves. For example, the Swedish King or some government official is often present when IKEA opens a new store somewhere in the world. If an new one is opened in Sweden, the local politicians help them out by adding bus stops and even new bus lines servicing it. It's kind of crazy given that IKEA in reality is a Dutch charity for tax reasons. At this point in time, IKEA is about as Swedish as Media Markt.

expertentipp 9y ago

Pyramidal Swedish masterpiece of charity.

charlesdm 9y ago

Avoidance, not evasion. If you're a very frugal person, it seems pretty normal to hate taxes. No point in saving on everything, yet then throwing x% away in taxes (yes, I am aware taxes fund a lot of good things, but at the same time a lot of money is wasted -- I'm sure Kamprad thought he could better manage and deploy that money)

andrepd 9y ago
Oh nice, if he thought he could use the money better, then sure, please carry on not paying taxes. Can I do the same? Or is that a privilege reserved for the mega-rich? Or let's call a spade a spade, and let's call tax evasion tax evasion.
- ptaipale 9y ago
  Sure, call tax evasion tax evasion, but AFAIK Kamprad wasn't doing it. Authorities go very hard against tax evasion, the illegal thing. Tax avoidance is by definition things that are legal, not tax evasion.
  - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
    In fact authorities are pretty lenient on tax evasion by the hyper-rich. The number of convictions and jail sentences isn't zero, but given the sums involved it's pitifully low. This is partly a resource problem. If you can pay advisors to create an impenetrable network of shell companies through which money disappears five levels down, you can pay lawyers to defend you if something goes wrong. The authorities are far more likely to go after - and jail - sole traders, smaller SMEs and consultants for five or six figure transgressions than near-billionaires with six, seven, or eight figure creative accounting.
    - ptaipale 9y ago
      It's not only relevant what the sums involved are. It is very relevant whether laws are broken, and how clear the lawbreaking is. Thus you can have large sums involved, but may find out that law wasn't broken, so there is no conviction. This is as it should be.

icebraining 9y ago

that donates money to "product design" They also fund programs by Save the Children: http://www.savethechildren.org/site/c.8rKLIXMGIpI4E/b.8275809/k.BB87/IKEA.htm http://www.savethechildren.org/site/c.8rKLIXMGIpI4E/b.827580...

Scarblac 9y ago

> allowing IKEA to escape vast sums of taxation globally. At the cost of not being able to access it at all anymore!